Strongly considering solo diving - lets talk

[pipedope]

I will dive with people who are not experienced and/or are at the begining of their diving training.

When I dive with them I know that I will be spending the majority of my attention in the dive on them.

When I dive with someone of the same skill/experience as me then I can divide my energy between keeping track of them and doing the task of the dive, i.e. looking around.

When I dive solo I again divide my energy between looking after me, and the task of the dive.

When I dive with a tender I can put 95%+ of my energy into getting the job done.

Inexperienced divers usually benefit from diving with a more experienced buddy.
Dangerous divers usually need an attitude adjustment first and Then some diving with a more experienced buddy.

 

[Hobbs]

I think you missed my point... and it wasn't o-rings.

no pug you missed my point..
eventually someone will take the post for real and follow what that posting has said since it is a very good name that has written it and since that name cant be wrong it is afterall a important person on "this page" and has lots and lots and lots more than "my 25 dives" then that name has to be right.. right ?
and someone ends up dead or with serious injury.....¨
in combating trolls one has to explain how stupid it is and why..
only with knowledge comes the correct conclusions.
only with correct conclusions comes correct risk management
only with correct risk management comes safety
so it all comes down to knowledge
dont you agree pug ??
ps
great to see you again also
*smiles*

 

[MaxBottomtime]

What is the best way to minimize the risks that are inherent with solo diving?
K

When I make a solo dive, which is not as frequent as it was before I was assimilated by my DIR buddies, I use the same gear and techniques as I do when buddy diving. I always dive in doubles, iso manifold, 55# wing, liftbag and drysuit. The only thing I do differently is not worry about my buddy. Most of my solo dives are as relaxing, if not more so than buddy dives. I don't change any limits so I'm not in a different frame of mind when solo. If I were to tell myself that I couldn't dive deep, penetrate wrecks, hunt bugs or stay down for two hours unless I had someone with me I would be cheating myself out of some excellent dive opportunities.

 

[Mo2vation]

The only thing I do differently is not worry about my buddy.

Max was mellow about it, others have used this as a cornerstone of their discussions. Maybe its me, but I never "worry about my buddy." A good buddy is a pleasure to dive with and keeping in the game with my buddy throughout the dive is not a chore. Even with a bad buddy - I'll adapt and make it a good dive. I guess I haven't had many terrible buddy experiences. The usual stuff - most hunters are terrble buddies, I won't dive with rebreathers, and that's the extent of my bad buddy experience.

Most newbies aren't bad buddies - they're just new. When I lay out (better: when we discuss and agree) the dive plan and the expectations, its always been OK. If they flail about, OK... we'll deal.

As I look at this topic after a few weeks of thoughtful reflection, its shaking out like this:

Soloing will be part of the plan going in, not a back up if I don't hook up, or if I broom my buddy after the first dive. One day, I'd like it to be another club in the bag, but for now - I want to focus and get a few solo dives under the ACB before I elevate it to an option C.

Gear wise, I got very good stuff, and its been pampered, and is in top condition. I place my life on that stuff. I'm OK with that. I'm working through the chain of failures and the requisite contingencies.

That said, I don't believe I can buy my way to being a safe solo diver by fitting myself with all manner of redundant gas supply or new, additional unproven stuff.

After all this, I'm convinced the best way to maximize the likelihood of me returning alive from a solo dive is to plan (and stick to) a conservative dive, dive my current (and familiar rig) and remain aware of where I am (Nav-wise), how I'm getting back and where I am in the plan (time-wise, gas-wise).

This has been illuminating. You guys (and ladies) rule, as always.

Ken

 

[Genesis]

When I make a solo dive, which is not as frequent as it was before I was assimilated by my DIR buddies, I use the same gear and techniques as I do when buddy diving. I always dive in doubles, iso manifold, 55# wing, liftbag and drysuit. The only thing I do differently is not worry about my buddy. Most of my solo dives are as relaxing, if not more so than buddy dives. I don't change any limits so I'm not in a different frame of mind when solo. If I were to tell myself that I couldn't dive deep, penetrate wrecks, hunt bugs or stay down for two hours unless I had someone with me I would be cheating myself out of some excellent dive opportunities.

I'm with you on this.

My best overhead dives have been solo. I know going in that the only person who's going to silt up the site and blow out the vis, get entangled in something, lose the guideline, or have some other kind of serious problem is me.

Having made this decision I also know that if I do have any of those problems, and cannot solve them on my own, I will surely die.

However, what I get in exchange for this is that nobody else will cause me to die on that dive - only I will be responsible for that, and just as importantly, I will not cause someone else to die.

There is a trade-off here that most people who are either solidly on the "solo" .vs. "buddy" side of this debate are either unwilling to accept or simply wish to dismiss - that by diving solo you create one risk, but avoid two. Specifically:

1. If there's a problem you can't successfully solve alone, you will die.
2. You will not, however, create a problem that causes someone else to die along with you in a futile attempt at a rescue.
3. You will not also be a witness to someone else dying while you survive, either from a problem you create, they create, or you both jointly create, which may be even worse than (2).

This trade-off is not simple to evaluate. All the cliches in the world, and all the cult beliefs about diving either solo or with a buddy do not change any of these facts - and they are facts.

Unfortunately the zealotry, particularly on the "unified team" side of this debate, clouds the issue. It postulates

Most of the time, people die when diving because they fail to think. They either violate one of the cardinal rules for the environment they are diving in, including all relavent factors (they fail to think before they dive), or they fail to think when a problem occurs underwater (they fail to think while diving.) The remainder of the deaths are unavoidable except by perhaps not diving at all (e.g. a physiological problem - which might have killed you on land as well as under the sea.)

In truth, as long as I have gas, all is ok. Oh sure, I might have something happen that would cause stress (e.g. entanglement, loss of vis, etc) but so long as my breathing supply remains adequate its all something that's a "situation" and not an "emergency."

The only true emergency is a loss of breathing medium.

Until you get to the point in your diving where you are comfortable with all of the above, you are not ready to dive solo. Exactly when a particular individual IS comfortable with those things varies from person to person and with the environment; it could happen in 50, 100 or 1000 dives, and it could happen never. I suspect that for the diver who trains and dives in locations where his or her "recreational" dives tend to be more challenging (.vs. a caribbean reef) is likely "ready" sooner than one who only dives on 20' deep reefs in the caribbean.

 

[diverbrian]

<snip>
There is a trade-off here that most people who are either solidly on the "solo" .vs. "buddy" side of this debate are either unwilling to accept or simply wish to dismiss - that by diving solo you create one risk, but avoid two. Specifically:

1. If there's a problem you can't successfully solve alone, you will die.
2. You will not, however, create a problem that causes someone else to die along with you in a futile attempt at a rescue.
3. You will not also be a witness to someone else dying while you survive, either from a problem you create, they create, or you both jointly create, which may be even worse than (2).

This trade-off is not simple to evaluate. All the cliches in the world, and all the cult beliefs about diving either solo or with a buddy do not change any of these facts - and they are facts.

Unfortunately the zealotry, particularly on the "unified team" side of this debate, clouds the issue.

<snip>


In truth, as long as I have gas, all is ok. Oh sure, I might have something happen that would cause stress (e.g. entanglement, loss of vis, etc) but so long as my breathing supply remains adequate its all something that's a "situation" and not an "emergency."

The only true emergency is a loss of breathing medium.

<snip>

Until you get to the point in your diving where you are comfortable with all of the above, you are not ready to dive solo. Exactly when a particular individual IS comfortable with those things varies from person to person and with the environment; it could happen in 50, 100 or 1000 dives, and it could happen never.

I actually agree with Genesis on most of his statement (even the stuff that I snipped for easier quoting). Diving will never be risk free. When we dive we all accept certain risks. What is acceptable risk for one diver in one area may not be acceptable for another.

This touches on why I don't particularly believe that there is such a thing as a "perfect" way for diving to be done while I respect the discipline of the people that are willing to dive that way.

In diving with a buddy, gear set-up, gas mixes, ....(I could go on ad nausem) it is up the individual diver (IMO) to choose what risks he/she is willing to accept. I personally wouldn't like the thought of being the survivor of an incident that killed my buddy, even if he caused it. I don't like injuries on my watch (which is why I disagree with so many people in saying that a dive boat is more than transportation). A death would be worse.

Again, I balance that risk with the fact that with a good buddy (which I am blessed with when I dive) something minor tends to stay minor. I have had my fin strap get caught in electrical wire. I got myself out, but it was nice to see my buddy there watching in case I would have been upset about it. I have done a quick freeing of my buddy's manifolds when they got caught on a guideline. No real entanglement, but a rope that hooks to your tank manifold is awful hard to see and easy to get tangled in trying to get out. These are little things, but things that show up in incident reports all of the time.

When we choose a gas mix, we are nearly always weighing a balance between oxygen toxicity possibility and increased nitrogen loading. Or maybe we choose to mitigate that risk by going with a standard mix that has a memorized table. Another for instance, even my Adv. Nitrox instructor doesn't use Helium on the few dives that he does above 130 ft. (at least with us). In order for me to dive below 135-140 range, I will have a normoxic tri-mix cert. I don't like the risk of doing something stupid when I am completely narced out of my gourd instead of just somewhat narced. I know divers who dive 180 ft on air routinely. I won't do it, but it means that they accept a different risk. It will be a few years before I have the money for this training, so I will be perfecting my skills for that class when I get there. As I understand it though, helium carries some additional risks that need to balanced as well.

So, if you intend to dive solo, I would say look at the risks that you are willing to accept for yourself. I would also say that a solo diver should be aware of those risks and not just ignore them. I would say mitigate the risks that you can. This includes, but is not limited to, redundant air supplies and being able to reach all their own gear. It means being a knowledgable diver and being willing to accept that your back-up is you and whatever redundancy that you have in your rig. Then, do as your conscience and common sense would have you do.

 

[IndigoBlue]

Max was mellow about it, others have used this as a cornerstone of their discussions. Maybe its me, but I never "worry about my buddy." A good buddy is a pleasure to dive with and keeping in the game with my buddy throughout the dive is not a chore. Even with a bad buddy - I'll adapt and make it a good dive. I guess I haven't had many terrible buddy experiences. The usual stuff - most hunters are terrble buddies, I won't dive with rebreathers, and that's the extent of my bad buddy experience.

Most newbies aren't bad buddies - they're just new. When I lay out (better: when we discuss and agree) the dive plan and the expectations, its always been OK. If they flail about, OK... we'll deal.

As I look at this topic after a few weeks of thoughtful reflection, its shaking out like this:

Soloing will be part of the plan going in, not a back up if I don't hook up, or if I broom my buddy after the first dive. One day, I'd like it to be another club in the bag, but for now - I want to focus and get a few solo dives under the ACB before I elevate it to an option C.

Gear wise, I got very good stuff, and its been pampered, and is in top condition. I place my life on that stuff. I'm OK with that. I'm working through the chain of failures and the requisite contingencies.

That said, I don't believe I can buy my way to being a safe solo diver by fitting myself with all manner of redundant gas supply or new, additional unproven stuff.

After all this, I'm convinced the best way to maximize the likelihood of me returning alive from a solo dive is to plan (and stick to) a conservative dive, dive my current (and familiar rig) and remain aware of where I am (Nav-wise), how I'm getting back and where I am in the plan (time-wise, gas-wise).

This has been illuminating. You guys (and ladies) rule, as always.

Ken

You're married, right? And this woman cares about you?

You will be hurting her when you dive alone, and you will forever hurt her if you don't come back.

Solo is for single divers. And solo is serious self abuse.

You can minimize the additional risk that you won't come back from a solo dive with the following precautions:

1) certify to a D/M level or higher
2) carry a pony bottle with enough gas to get you to the surface
3) carry 2 knives, in case you need one and you drop it
4) wear a backup electronic depth/timing device to your primary electronic depth/timing device
5) read Robert Maier's book about solo diving and do everything he says

But you cannot eliminate that additional risk.

If you are married and/or you have kids, you have no business solo underwater.

 

[IndigoBlue]

When I make a solo dive, which is not as frequent as it was before I was assimilated by my DIR buddies, I use the same gear and techniques as I do when buddy diving. I always dive in doubles, iso manifold, 55# wing, liftbag and drysuit. The only thing I do differently is not worry about my buddy. Most of my solo dives are as relaxing, if not more so than buddy dives. I don't change any limits so I'm not in a different frame of mind when solo. If I were to tell myself that I couldn't dive deep, penetrate wrecks, hunt bugs or stay down for two hours unless I had someone with me I would be cheating myself out of some excellent dive opportunities.

That's funny Max.

If you are DIR then you only have one Suunto in gauge mode on your arm. Better strap another Suunto next to it. You DIR guys are not the only buddy-dependent divers out there, but you are the only buddy-dependent divers out there who don't realize you are buddy dependent.

But then, the DIR philosophy mandates diving in a team, and not solo, so you're missing the boat on the whole solo issue, Max.

Of course, if you are single and not married, it does not matter, because nobody will miss you very much when you don't come back from a solo dive.

 

[Genesis]

You're married, right? And this woman cares about you?

You will be hurting her when you dive alone, and you will forever hurt her if you don't come back.

Solo is for single divers. And solo is serious self abuse.

....

If you are married and/or you have kids, you have no business solo underwater.

This is one of the most disgusting piece of self-flagellation I've seen on this thread, one of the worst attacks on individual freedom, and one of the most unwarranted.

First, neither you or anyone else has a right to invade my living room - or bedroom. Keepa you hands out of my family. We are quite capable of determining what is and is not acceptable risk in our lives ourselves.

Second, the risk of me dying while driving to school to pick up my kid (or drop her off) vastly exceed, by a factor of about 100 times, that of me dying while I am diving solo. The statistics back this up - whether you wish to admit it or not. Therefore, if you wish to make that argument, please hand over your car keys to me, as your "car police" so your kid(s) and wife (and/or ex, if you have one and are paying her support!) can be sure they get what they're due from 'ya. Oh, and while you're at it, hand over your cigarettes, the beer in your fridge, wine in the cellar, and anything that has fat in your freezer or sugar in your pantry, because all of those are more likely to kill you dead than diving solo will as well.

While you're at it you are on notice that you are forbidden to allow your children to play soccer, baseball, football, run track, swim in a pool, ride a bicycle or engage in horseplay outside without your direct, 100% supervision. Your teenage son or daughter is forbidden to operate a motor vehicle under any circumstances. All of these activities are more likely to cause their death than solo scuba diving is to cause yours. You have no right to put your family at such risk, and as such you may not permit any of these activities to take place.

If you are offended by my point of view, tough. Its for your own good. I know better than you, your wife and your kids what's good for you and your family, and you have no right to exceed a risk threshold for any of your family members that someone else - in this case, I - define for you.

Your sort of argument has no place in a rational debate on the practice of solo diving. Indeed, the crass attempt to play the "family values" card is not only factually false, it is intentionally calculated to inflame even though you KNOW its false.

As such you deserve to be called on it.

 

[pipedope]

Solo diving advice from someone who is opposed to solo diving??????

I don't think so.

BTW Redundant cutting tools does not mean two knives.
A better choice is a knife and a set of shears. If you want real redundancy beyond that a Leatherman clipped off in a pocket is a great backup because it will let you do LOTS more things.
A pony is not the only way to have a redundant gas supply.

As far as dangerous activities, do you take baths? Have you seen the number of people who die in the bathtub every year?