Streamlining Training

[Thalassamania]

Or the Navy manual which is free, on the web.

 

[AndyNZ]

Trace, the problem isn't with the courses (at least in PADI land), where I would put the emphasis on "streamlining" is with the instructor corps.

I would start by making it less easy to become a dive instructor ...

What Peter and Bob said!


Looking at my own experience, the first two years I was teaching..... I was cr@p.

Many instructors don't last two years to give them that experience to reflect on how cr@p they were/are, but burn out and drop out. Of those who last the two years, I reckon half of them just become creatures of habit and take the easy road of minimum standards/no-value training.

Most courses are taught by those new instructors.......



... so yeah, a change in instructor training. Though in fact I personally believe that changes needs to start (with PADI) at the Divemaster level. I am intrigued to see the revised DM course that PADI are planning to release later this year.

 

[Hepcat62]

I would start by making it less easy to become a dive instructor...

Agreed. I finished my DM (PADI) a few months ago, and have been enjoying being a working DM (though not at all for the money). I've already had several offers from friends/colleagues come up to "go pay X dollars, travel somewhere beautiful for a week, and come back as an instructor (basically guaranteed!)". I could do this now if I wanted, but I have no interest in doing so.

1. Being a working DM has allowed me to work with a variety of instructors, and has taught me (even more) about what kind of instructor I would want to be.
2. I believe that I am in no way ready to be the kind of instructor I want to be at this point. I simply don't have the breadth of experience I would want an instructor to have (yet).

I feel that my skills are solid at this point, at least at the recreational level. I dive regularly in the Monterey, CA area, in often challenging visibility and cold'ish water. I can do so effectively while watching/helping students. I'm a good communicator. I've been told that I work well with students, especially when they're struggling.

I'm basically 100% confident that I would pass, and I'd be lying if I said that didn't bother me a little bit.

I have not had to deal with a significant real-world crisis scenario (not that I'm sad about that). I have not done significant travel and diving in non-local conditions. In the grand scheme of diving, there are a lot more things I haven't done than things I have, and I'd rather push that ratio a good bit further in the other direction prior to presuming that I have any business teaching somebody how to dive...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Agreed. I finished my DM (PADI) a few months ago, and have been enjoying being a working DM (though not at all for the money). I've already had several offers from friends/colleagues come up to "go pay X dollars, travel somewhere beautiful for a week, and come back as an instructor (basically guaranteed!)". I could do this now if I wanted, but I have no interest in doing so.

1. Being a working DM has allowed me to work with a variety of instructors, and has taught me (even more) about what kind of instructor I would want to be.
2. I believe that I am in no way ready to be the kind of instructor I want to be at this point. I simply don't have the breadth of experience I would want an instructor to have (yet).

I feel that my skills are solid at this point, at least at the recreational level. I dive regularly in the Monterey, CA area, in often challenging visibility and cold'ish water. I can do so effectively while watching/helping students. I'm a good communicator. I've been told that I work well with students, especially when they're struggling.

I'm basically 100% confident that I would pass, and I'd be lying if I said that didn't bother me a little bit.

I have not had to deal with a significant real-world crisis scenario (not that I'm sad about that). I have not done significant travel and diving in non-local conditions. In the grand scheme of diving, there are a lot more things I haven't done than things I have, and I'd rather push that ratio a good bit further in the other direction prior to presuming that I have any business teaching somebody how to dive...

Absolutely ... the best advice I got after becoming a DM was to spend at least a year working with as many different instructors as possible before considering instructor training. I found that while they all had their "bag of tricks", some were consistently turning out better divers than others. I learned a lot ... even from the ones I decided I didn't want to emulate.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

The path to instructor does need to change. Too many 90 day (or less) wonders. Too many people with outdated teaching skills teaching. But this is about OW.

I like the shift to e-learning. It works and can give the instructor more time in the pool or in OW. However, the biggest change needed in the industry is a price overhaul. The current pricing system was based on being almost a loss leader so that profit could be made on gear sales. Let's double or triple the cost of a basic class so that Instructors can teach smaller classes and not feel the need to cut corners in order to be able to live. The current list of skills as outlined by the RSTC is fine, but the teaching environment is failed due to the number of people needed in each class to make this work. Course length needs to be at the discretion of the instructor,

 

[Diver0001]

Absolutely ... the best advice I got after becoming a DM was to spend at least a year working with as many different instructors as possible before considering instructor training. I found that while they all had their "bag of tricks", some were consistently turning out better divers than others. I learned a lot ... even from the ones I decided I didn't want to emulate.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This was exactly my experience as well..... although I assisted for several years as a DM in the process.

I think I was fortunate because I was a pretty good diver before I went pro so I didn't have to learn how to dive and learn how to teach at the same time. I've seen a few instructors in this position and it's painful. Eventually they do learn it, but not until they've "practiced" on way too many students first.

and just picking up on what Hepcat62 said. I also believe I am in no way the instructor I want to be. I'm highly motivated improve and every class I run is better than the last one. I believe this learning curve has no end and if someone believes they've become the instructor they want to be, then it's time to retire.

Perfection is an illusion but it's also the goal.

R..

 

[seaducer]

Ahh, a stimulating training discussion to welcome me back to Scubaboard

At the very least I would role AOW into the basic OW certification, and add those "core" dives to the checkout requirement. I would add additional focus on buoyancy control, and since it is everywhere now, enriched air diving.

To that end I think the class/pool sessions should be expanded some, for no other reason than to at least make sure each student has extra pool time to get comfortable moving themselves and all that gear UW. My original class was 6 or 7 weeks, with a 1+ hour pool session each time, and I think that was the least amount needed to achieve some level of competence for the average person. The extra class time would be used for expanding on the AOW lessons that currently get glossed over in the book.

I would leave all the specialty courses alone. They only sell if people want them, and to that end they should be available. I think I would eliminate the cards for those courses though, there is no need for a...kayak diver card for example, but the course may be valuable never-the-less.

My idea of the perfect system, the BOW card would declare that people were taught to dive to recreational limits, on EAN. An advanced card would be for an intro to tech type course.

My comments are directed at open water training only. I know nothing about cave diving so I can't comment on that. But I should also say, IMO the current system does not appear to be too broken, lots of people getting certified (driving market innovations for the rest of us) and few getting hurt. This is perhaps all academic

 

[diverrex]

I think I was fortunate because I was a pretty good diver before I went pro so I didn't have to learn how to dive and learn how to teach at the same time. I've seen a few instructors in this position and it's painful. Eventually they do learn it, but not until they've "practiced" on way too many students first.


R..

Good point (I bolded your quote). Instructor candidates should all be good divers before entering instructor training. As others have said I think the best way to improve training is not by changing the current structure but by having better instructors. Bad instructors will be bad instructors no matter what the training structure. The only advanatge to a longer course with a bad instructor is that the student might eventually pick up more of it on their own despite the instructor.

 

[seaducer]

Good point (I bolded your quote). Instructor candidates should all be good divers before entering instructor training.

This is really the cruz of the issue. I would like to see more meat in the BOW classes, but in reality what is needed is more potatoes in the instructor's resume. Don't get me wrong, most of my certs are PADI, and I was, and still am, impressed and confident in most of my instructors and the way they teach.

My first OW instructor was a MSDT, tech diver and all around stud. We learned a ton in his class and had to prove ourselves before we earned the right to check out. This was circa 1991.

I elected to do OW a second time after spending some years on the beach. My second instructor was less skilled at teaching. I was very glad for the original class and background I came into the second class with.

NOW that I have a little experience in the water and in taking courses, I am more picky about who I take classes from. A beginner will not have that luxury no matter how many times they read the "How to choose a class" threads here. They just don't know what they don't know.

I think it is up to the current MSDT to change the way the pros go pro, but I am not sure they have the authority to do so. I am also not sure enough of them would want to rock the boat, though most of the ones I know personally would. Then again, people who dive here take a more rigid approach than those in the resorts...

The one other area I really have an issue with is the swim requirements. I don't think you need to be an Ironman finisher to get certified, but the current swim test, well, you might as well take the student's word that they can swim, since the test is that much of a joke.:depressed:

 

[knowone]

Or the Navy manual which is free, on the web.

Perhaps not so tender but, looks good, feels good, even smells good, march 1970 10" by 8" 687 pages of 4lbs of 2" thick MEAT.