Streamlining Training

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I honestly don't have a problem with specialty classes, so long as they aren't just pure fluff. Time is one of the most precious resources people have today, and breaking training up into smaller pieces that can be accomplished in a weekend makes training accessible . . . classes that take 5 or more days are really hard for people to do. There is nothing wrong, for example, with a wreck diving specialty (non-penetration) that teaches folks about shot lines, perhaps using a reel from the anchor to find the wreck, perhaps teaches a little bit about ship structure and what you might be looking at, perhaps works on direct ascents and stops, and SMB deployment. You could put together a nice class with some substance to it, if you wanted. The issue is not with the fragmentation of education, to me, as much as it is the dilution of it.
 
Well, I think most of the specialty courses are pure fluff, so I won't get into those.

As for the core open water course, it needs to be greatly expanded. Dump the weekend wonder courses. BOW should include PPB, nitrox, deep (sport limit is STILL 130!!), navigation, dive panning and gas planning.

the angencies will never increase the training requirements, becuase they want the fastest, easiest way to get people a C-card. That way they get as much money as possible.
 
Not all of them do. Some have actually contributed by increasing standards in core courses. Look at GUE, UTD, and my own agency-SEI. Many of the so called fluff courses were dumped or shelved until they could be revamped to reflect the goals of our training program. I rewrote the UW Nav to include 6 dives, 6-8 hours of classroom, map creation, and extensive planning. Gas management is part of the course as is buoyancy control and trim.

The AOW is being looked at to put more emphasis on real skills as opposed to just a tour of the dives. I teach a course now that is nothing like the old one or my own AOW training 6 years ago. OW has had a 24 hour option that required more on site instruction during the OW checkouts. This seems to be going the way of the dodo with the 32 hour minimum being required. I could not be happier with this. It all comes down to what is expected and wanted out of the courses. I don't want big numbers. I want divers who want to dive and who I would trust to dive with my kids if I was not around. I have no interest in training those who want less than that.
 
Specialties = $$$$ for LDSs & agencies, so they are not going anywhere....& some of the courses are really funny...

View all PADI Courses
 
Not all of them do. Some have actually contributed by increasing standards in core courses. Look at GUE, UTD, and my own agency-SEI. Many of the so called fluff courses were dumped or shelved until they could be revamped to reflect the goals of our training program. I rewrote the UW Nav to include 6 dives, 6-8 hours of classroom, map creation, and extensive planning. Gas management is part of the course as is buoyancy control and trim.

I am aware of the GUE and UTD (or is it UDT?) classes. SEI is a new one for me. As much as I applaud the direction they have gone in, they are basically un-heard of by most divers. Until the big-boys get on board, the water will still be filled with fresh OW divers who can't maintain bouyancy, roto-till the bottoms and the reefs, and surface with empty tanks.

IF only we could make "fully trained, not minimally certified" as being cool in the eyes of prospective divers.
 
Personally I think the problem is more the amount you have to spend on the specialties that are kinda no brainers.. drift dive, boat dive are more about makeing sure folks get the experience with a trainer so they don't go do something dangerous.
PADI has it right with twos exception and I believe this is: 1. the level at which you should start getting paid! I think insured DSD Divemasters and Asst. Instructors are really the same thing and both should be allowed to teach simple specialties like boat, drift and photography for money. Not just DSD's and refreshers and guides for DM's. 2. I also think that OWSI should only be able to teach up to Advanced. I think beyond that should only be taught by MSDT PROs. so that the levels net a financial and appropriate award for the work and dollars spend to obtain it.

Asst. Instructor really should just go away.. and they should just make the OWSI course the extra day or two to make up for the difference. DM's should be Asst. Instructors if they get it honestly through internship.
 
Trace -- while this general topic seems to continue to be beaten to death with the same "usual suspects" making the same comments, perhaps, someday, some good might come from one of these threads. OK -- end of whine.

For what it is worth, my thoughts coming from the PADI instructor perspective:

I wouldn't focus on the courses at all because, quite frankly, IF they are taught properly AND TO STANDARDS, the students will come out with good skills (depending on their level). Whether it be "underwater pumpkin carving" -- ok, what skills -- excellent buoyancy control, good kicking technique (including helicopter turns and back kick), manual dexterity in tool use all the while with great situational awareness/buddiness to keep track of your buddy and your own situation while carving a pumpkin. Hey, what's wrong with that? OR the boat specialty -- not only do you learn basic knowledge of a boat (what is the pointy end? and what is that thing called a head (and why would I pee in a HEAD for pete's sake!)) but various ways of egressing/ingressing from a boat (back roll, giant stride, etc.), SMB deployment, problems with square profiles, live boat vs. fixed boat, all available gas plan vs. thirds, and so on. Not bad for a weekend course in my book.

Trace, the problem isn't with the courses (at least in PADI land), where I would put the emphasis on "streamlining" is with the instructor corps. First of all, I would require instructors to have a broader experience range than they now may have -- including honest experience in night diving, deep diving, boat diving, multi-level diving, etc. I would also require all instructors to be trained BEYOND "recreational limits" so that they were teaching below their maximum level of training/experience. (This is in line with GUE's requirement that to teach DIR-F you must be Tech-1 for example.) So all OW instructors (in PADI Land) would have to some minimal Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures training. And since I'm waiving my Magic Wand, I'd require all PADI Instructors to have "mastered" the "Essentials" of Diving as outlined by the UTD Essentials course. This would mean they have excellent buoyancy skills, a whole passel of kicks and on and on.

[Digression - This reminds me very much of 'Enry 'Iggins singing, "Why Can't a Women Be More Like a Man?" when he sings, "Why can't a woman Be like me!?" End of digression.]

Well trained instructors create good students and what we need to "streamline" is the creation of well trained and experienced instructors.

I've said before that what "the old guard" says is a minimum for an OW scuba diver is nuts - especially since the vast majority of people learning to scuba dive are just doing it for the rare tropical experience. They really don't need to know all that "the old guard" thinks is required to dive safely and enjoyably -- but with better instructors at the getgo, those students will have more fun and just may graduate to being something more than the every three year DM following vacation tourist.

"It's the instruction stupid" is the key, NOT the courses.
 
If you could remodel diver training how would you do it?

I would start by making it less easy to become a dive instructor ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Trace -- while this general topic seems to continue to be beaten to death with the same "usual suspects" making the same comments, perhaps, someday, some good might come from one of these threads. OK -- end of whine.

For what it is worth, my thoughts coming from the PADI instructor perspective:

I wouldn't focus on the courses at all because, quite frankly, IF they are taught properly AND TO STANDARDS, the students will come out with good skills (depending on their level). Whether it be "underwater pumpkin carving" -- ok, what skills -- excellent buoyancy control, good kicking technique (including helicopter turns and back kick), manual dexterity in tool use all the while with great situational awareness/buddiness to keep track of your buddy and your own situation while carving a pumpkin. Hey, what's wrong with that? OR the boat specialty -- not only do you learn basic knowledge of a boat (what is the pointy end? and what is that thing called a head (and why would I pee in a HEAD for pete's sake!)) but various ways of egressing/ingressing from a boat (back roll, giant stride, etc.), SMB deployment, problems with square profiles, live boat vs. fixed boat, all available gas plan vs. thirds, and so on. Not bad for a weekend course in my book.

Trace, the problem isn't with the courses (at least in PADI land), where I would put the emphasis on "streamlining" is with the instructor corps. First of all, I would require instructors to have a broader experience range than they now may have -- including honest experience in night diving, deep diving, boat diving, multi-level diving, etc. I would also require all instructors to be trained BEYOND "recreational limits" so that they were teaching below their maximum level of training/experience. (This is in line with GUE's requirement that to teach DIR-F you must be Tech-1 for example.) So all OW instructors (in PADI Land) would have to some minimal Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures training. And since I'm waiving my Magic Wand, I'd require all PADI Instructors to have "mastered" the "Essentials" of Diving as outlined by the UTD Essentials course. This would mean they have excellent buoyancy skills, a whole passel of kicks and on and on.

[Digression - This reminds me very much of 'Enry 'Iggins singing, "Why Can't a Women Be More Like a Man?" when he sings, "Why can't a woman Be like me!?" End of digression.]

Well trained instructors create good students and what we need to "streamline" is the creation of well trained and experienced instructors.

I've said before that what "the old guard" says is a minimum for an OW scuba diver is nuts - especially since the vast majority of people learning to scuba dive are just doing it for the rare tropical experience. They really don't need to know all that "the old guard" thinks is required to dive safely and enjoyably -- but with better instructors at the getgo, those students will have more fun and just may graduate to being something more than the every three year DM following vacation tourist.

"It's the instruction stupid" is the key, NOT the courses.

Of course some of the "old guard" are still diving 50 years later. The question is how many of the the new guard who go no further than OW or possibly AOW will still be diving 50 years hence.
 
I think I understood.

Current major agency training manuals read like children's books, the "milk".
Many of us are clamoring for more comprehensive, in-depth training or at least the information to be accessible to us, the "meat".

Ultimately, in the end, we all just want to hit the water and dive. :)

(to be fair, not really sure which approach knowone was advocating, the milk or the meat?)

The meat, maybe more meat than you want to eat but it will fatten up your knowledge.

NOAA Diving Manual
 

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