Stop steering new divers in North America towards DIN regulators

[kelemvor]

Also, it's worth mentioning there's at least one advantage to yoke over DIN.

You can't cross thread a yoke regulator.

I've cross threaded a reg into a tank. I've cross threaded a yoke adapter onto my regulator. At least I assumed that to be the problem in both cases. Both were a huge PITA to get off, and required a pipe wrench and lots of elbow grease.

 

[dlofting]

The point is that there are other people coming to Scubaboard for advice, who don't understand the tradeoffs.

Then they can learn, just like we all did.

 

[Stoo]

I'd rather people use the better system. The more people use DIN, the more likely Ops will be incentivized to change.

This. Why would anyone encourage new divers to use a piece of kit which has inherent faults, and one which they will outgrow if they get "serious" about diving?

Sooner or later DIN will dominate the North American market. The more customers that demand cylinders in that configuration, the sooner it will happen. In the mean time, an adapter works fine.

 

[Shotmaster]

If the Army kept that mentality, they would still have mules tied to the Abrams tank, at some point you have to move forward. I have DIN regs, and have yoke adapters for them, so I can use what is available. The installed base of tanks in the rental fleets is paid for and they last for decades. The only way that is going to change is through attrition or competition for customers. I don't see not having DIN tank valves as a deal breaker at a resort dive. Also, a DIN adapter can be had online for under $30.00 new and I have seen them on eBay for $20.00.

 

[gcarter]

So, the DIN connection between the regulator and valve is great, many advantages over yoke, let's get some of them out of the way:
1) no problems with o-ring blowout during a dive
2) physically stronger connection more able to withstand a collision with a solid object
3) diver can't mistake valve knob for regulator attachment knob
4) connection does not tend to come loose during a dive even if tank valve is shut and connection is unpressurized
5) can support higher pressures up to 300 bar

Most of my regs and tanks are DIN.

The problem is that, in North America, dive ops that cater to recreational divers, especially ones who cater to newer divers, have rental cylinders that are yoke. In my experience most of these are yoke only valves, not the "pro valve" style with the removable slug. I'll mention a few specifics I've run into without naming specific shops:

1) I dove with a large dive op in Key West, all rental cylinders were yoke only
2) I dove with another dive op in Key West, cylinders had pro valves, divemaster was willing to remove the slugs but had to go to the shop for a hex key to do it
3) I dove with a dive op in Islamorada, choice of AL80s with yoke only and air, or HP100s with DIN and 32%
4) I dove with the dive concession in Pennekamp State Park, cylinders were yoke only
5) My local dive club shares cylinders among members on a no-fee courtesy basis, but only one member has any DIN cylinders (besides me)
6) Of the three local (Minnesota) dive shops I've visited, none routinely rents cylinders with DIN valves

I think it does a disservice to encourage new divers to get DIN regulators when they'll end up using the yoke adapter 90% of the time -- which they will, unless they're in cave country, or buy their own cylinders, or are diving with more sophisticated, high-end operators.

In my local area convertible valves are quite common, as are DIN divers.

 

[gcarter]

who steered you towards DIN ??? We teach and show DIN in classes but never steer any student towards DIN, DIN is mainly only used by tech divers!!!!!

Not at all true. Nonsense, in fact.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I remember when I first started diving and used to hang out at the dive shop, all the talk was about how everything was going to go DIN so everyone better prepare for it. Here we are 20 years later and everything is still the same.
I see all yolk in dive shops and DIN is a special order.
There was a time when I went DIN, and it was fine. I never had a problem with yolk valves, never had an o-ring blow out. I bought a Hog reg which was DIN, so I pulled the slugs out of my HP tanks to use that reg. The problem is, I also use steel 72's so I had to run two regs, a yolk style and the DIN Hog. I realized that my heart wasn't really onto the Hog, great reg and all but I already had several Scubapro regs and Conshelfs which will serve my diving needs for the rest of my life, so I sold the Hog. I put the slugs back in and now only dive yolk regs again.
I see no problem and to me the superiority of DIN is only in theory. If yolks are fine and never fail then why would there be a need for something better for a simple recreational diver that doesn't ever get cave fills?

I'm with 2airishuman, stop filling nOObs heads with crap about yolk not being good, they're fine.
And if price of regs is an issue then buy good used stuff and learn to service your own regs. That's what's actually new and going on in the dive world: learning to be self sufficient, not how everything will go to DIN, because it's not. Maybe it is here on Scubaboard, but this isn't the real world. 99% of the real world is using yolk.

 

[WarrenZ]

I just hate rental tank orings always giving me problems. All my stuff is din but I carry an adapter when I travel.

 

[Oldbear]

Unless someone really wants and knows about DIN, in my OW classes I show them DIN, we discuss the pros & cons of DIN, yet I have only had one in 200+ students who wanted DIN at that level. By the time they want to drink the DIN Kool-aid they usually want more than just "one" regulator anyways and purchase their own tanks with convertible valves.

I use DIN regs on my personal doubles and two sets of side-mount bottles and have convertible values on four stage bottles. I teach with single cylinders so I use yoke regulators for either my pool or open water sessions. If you buy the "right" regulator from the beginning you can convert your 1st stages from DIN to Yoke and vice verse with minimal efforts....or buy a converter.

 

[Shotmaster]

The bigger issue is the cylinder pressures. There are no 300 bar yokes that I am aware of, and they found a loophole with the 232 DIN spec, so progress faltered since there are 232 rated yokes.