Sticky Situation: PADI vs SSI

[KrisB]

Unfortunately, having an instructor provide a PADI cert number is apparently not enough. She had her cert number (I have it now as well...) and put it on our referral forms. I suppose that had we known to check this beforehand (meaning the weeks leading up to the trip, as opposed to the day of the trip), we could have contacted PADI to make sure everything was current and she'd be able to actually certify us. But I guess you live and learn.

If you had her cert number and name before you left for your trip, you could have called PADI (during normal business hours) and asked to verify her instructor's teaching status. Alternatively, your instructor at home could have pulled up the PADI Member's Area website and verified this information any time of the day or night for you.

I'm not blaming you -- most student divers have no clue that they can do this, nor that it can be a big headache if it turns out this way. Not to mention, we all like to assume the best in others, like they won't be misrepresenting their credentials...

 

[Teamcasa]

If you had her cert number and name before you left for your trip, you could have called PADI (during normal business hours) and asked to verify her instructor's teaching status. Alternatively, your instructor at home could have pulled up the PADI Member's Area website and verified this information any time of the day or night for you.

I'm not blaming you -- most student divers have no clue that they can do this, nor that it can be a big headache if it turns out this way. Not to mention, we all like to assume the best in others, like they won't be misrepresenting their credentials...

Just how often would you (as a new diver) even consider doing that?

 

[KrisB]

Just how often would you (as a new diver) even consider doing that?

Never. And that's what I'm saying.

As an industry, if we want to be up-in-arms over this situation with the OP, we've got to look at ways to resolve the issue. One is that we educate the soon-to-be-diving public that they should always be asking to verify teaching credentials.

 

[ligersandtions]

If you had her cert number and name before you left for your trip, you could have called PADI (during normal business hours) and asked to verify her instructor's teaching status. Alternatively, your instructor at home could have pulled up the PADI Member's Area website and verified this information any time of the day or night for you.

I'm not blaming you -- most student divers have no clue that they can do this, nor that it can be a big headache if it turns out this way. Not to mention, we all like to assume the best in others, like they won't be misrepresenting their credentials...

Right, of course....if I had even thought that there may be an issue such as this, I would have done exactly that. So my hope is that new divers who are doing their check out dives somewhere other than with their original instructor, see this thread and take the steps to get the other instructor's cert number and check it out for themselves. I would assume a situation such as this is not the norm, but I hope for others' sake that the will see that it's a possibilty and do as much as they can to prevent the headache!


Also, I am now in contact with PADI QA, so I hope to get this resolved fairly quickly and painlessly

 

[KrisB]

Right, of course....if I had even thought that there may be an issue such as this, I would have done exactly that. So my hope is that new divers who are doing their check out dives somewhere other than with their original instructor, see this thread and take the steps to get the other instructor's cert number and check it out for themselves. I would assume a situation such as this is not the norm, but I hope for others' sake that the will see that it's a possibilty and do as much as they can to prevent the headache!

I'd go one step further -- students should seriously consider verifying the teaching status of the *sending* ("original" using your term) instructor as well. If the receiving instructor happens to verify those credentials and they're not current, and the sending instructor can't rectify it, the student is REALLY screwed!

Also, I am now in contact with PADI QA, so I hope to get this resolved fairly quickly and painlessly

I suspect you'll have few to no issues there. I've not heard of PADI being overly harsh against a student when they've done everything correctly.

 

[fisherdvm]

There is too much assumption, I think, of shop owners who assumes that one agency's instructor can grant cards for students who did confined water with another agency.

When my son did his SSI confined water, I was told that he can finish the open water part and get either an SSI or PADI card. Since I find my PADI card so convenience to get verified, I said, go ahead and give him a PADI card. When we meet with his OW instructor, he said it is not as simple as that. Technically, he, said, my son would have to pass the PADI exam, and demonstrate confined water skills with PADI standard (slightly different and require a few more things than SSI). So he said, it would be easier to simply do the OW dives, and get the SSI card.

Occasionally, it is not the open water instructor's fault, it is the shop. But in this case, it sounded like it was the instructor who mislead the student. Not the shop.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Also, I am now in contact with PADI QA, so I hope to get this resolved fairly quickly and painlessly

That's great and you're on the right track, but please be prepared for what may come back. PADI Q&A does not resolve disputes between parties, they merely determine if the member is acting within agency standards and if any standards have been violated. They can resolve certain situations, such as the insurance one mentioned above. It is highly doubtful they will tell you of what, if any, punitive action is taken against the member.

They most likely will come back and thank you for the report, they will take action, but sorry, your checkout dives do not count since the member was in non-teaching status. You will need to complete the checkout dives with an active, teaching status Instructor to receive PADI certification.

So, what about that temporary certification you got? Which agency?<--never mind, re-read the second post from the OP. Must have been that little paper one from a PIC envelope.

 

[KrisB]

They most likely will come back and thank you for the report, they will take action, but sorry, your checkout dives do not count since the member was in non-teaching status. You will need to complete the checkout dives with an active, teaching status Instructor to receive PADI certification.

That is, perhaps, not 100% accurate.

PADI QA may find a way of issuing the certification -- perhaps by requiring the instructor in question to pay up (for renewal) or face a lawsuit and permanent expulsion from PADI. If the only reason this instructor wasn't current had to do with payment of dues for 2008, I suspect it'll all work out with a PADI card being issued.

If on the other hand, the instructor had some QA issue that meant they couldn't teach, then we're looking at different challenges... not the least of which should include legal action.

 

[Joe-Diver]

If PADI is willing to do it and the Instructor is willing to pay, then great. I hope it works out that way. Might be the easiest path to make it go away and a win for the student.

Hard to believe she didn't know she wasn't current as we're way past renewal. Issuing a temp card knowing you're not current...that's pretty serious.

 

[Swampdonkey]

Interesting problem. Poor title though, as it really is a dive shop issue not a agency one. As for the ethical question, it was in Mexico, many things aren't done to US or Canadian standards in Ethics.

Hope you get out diving and with your LDS.