Sticky Situation: PADI vs SSI

[redacted]

The one thing you can do is to let everyone know the name of the dive shop that pulled the switch so others will know they may or may not get what those folks say they'll get.
Rick

You might want to hold off on naming the shop for now. Talk to your PADI instructor and see what he can do and what he recommends. Then decide what it will take from the COZ instructor to make things right with you. They may be very accommodating, particularly if you have a little leverage.

 

[ligersandtions]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm totally stoked that it will not be a problem regardless of which cert we go with. My first issue was making sure we were not screwing ourselves in the long run....and of course the other issue is due to the fact we were promised PADI cards and are now likely to not get them. However, the second issue is becoming less important with all the information everyone has provided....so a big big thanks to everyone!

We will be talking with our local instructor either today or sometime this weekend to see if he has any specific recommendations. My guess is that he will push for us to get the PADI certification, but if he doesn't have a better reason than "it's better than SSI" or "you have to pay extra for the certification dives than the normal dives you already have planned with me", I'll probably just stick with the SSI card assuming she can pull the right strings to get them for us. We'll just have to wait and see....

Walter is correct. And you're justified in your irritation.
Lesson learned.
As a practical matter, however, pursuing justice in this case is a waste of your time - take whatever C card they send you and, if you want a card that says "PADI" go take the next PADI AOW course at your home shop.
The one thing you can do is to let everyone know the name of the dive shop that pulled the switch so others will know they may or may not get what those folks say they'll get.
Rick

Again, like I mentioned above, I'm very glad that the certifying agency isn't that big of a deal, so from a practical matter it really doesn't make a difference.

I'm going to hold off mentioning the name of the dive op we're having issues with unless something changes dramatically (i.e. they can't get us an SSI card or a PADI card, but refuses to refund the difference in price between the certification dives and a regular dive). We had a really good time with them and I don't want to ruin their reputation as a good dive op (certainly not as a good place to get PADI certified )....

Lesson learned (and hopefully others can learn from this mistake as well): make absolutely sure that if you're doing check out dives somewhere outside of where you did your coursework and pool dives that the certifying instructor is current and active in the agency of your choice.

One thing I did read, that I liked, was that the OP is looking to the path for ongoing training. And it looks like the OP will take that training seriously. A breath of fresh air from a new diver.

My advice: Take whatever card you can get. Figure out what your goals and objectives are as a diver. Find an instructor that will help you meet those objectives. Don't take short cuts when it comes to training. Remember the training is more important than the card. Stick with that instructor like glue! Dive a lot and practice, practice, practice.

Skills rust when removed from water

Good luck and welcome to Scubaboard.

Thanks for the welcome and advice....and I definitely plan to continue my learning and diving. We've had such a great time in the short period we've been doing this and I certainly don't want to stop. I also don't want to become complacent in my skills or diving in general, because that's the time when you forget simple things you learned in the OW course....like checking your air pressure frequently.

 

[Teamcasa]

...We will be talking with our local instructor either today or sometime this weekend to see if he has any specific recommendations. My guess is that he will push for us to get the PADI certification, but if he doesn't have a better reason than "it's better than SSI" or "you have to pay extra for the certification dives than the normal dives you already have planned with me", I'll probably just stick with the SSI card assuming she can pull the right strings to get them for us. We'll just have to wait and see....

If you need any local help, just shoot me a PM. I'm sure the guys at Dolphin will be more than fair. They are good folks.

I look forward to diving with you and your husband sometime soon.

 

[Law5Guy]

An OW card is an OW card. The only advantage of PADI is that you can verify your certification status by the internet at any resort around the world,

NAUI can do this too:
NAUI Worldwide Diver Lookup

 

[nwhitney2003]

You might want to hold off on naming the shop for now. Talk to your PADI instructor and see what he can do and what he recommends. Then decide what it will take from the COZ instructor to make things right with you. They may be very accommodating, particularly if you have a little leverage.

I agree with awap here. But something yet to be mentioned is that if this instructor was not honest upfront regarding the certifying agency could there be anything else that she was not honest about? If this is how she chooses to operate than what other things might she not mention? Maybe certain skills (please don't think I'm questioning your skills ligeranstions this is just a thought) were not up to par and she passed them anyways. Could be some serious safety issues here. Personally, I'd be livid for the above reasons, regardless of how similar the agencies are or the ability to cross-over. Okay I'll stop my rant now. Welcome to diving!

 

[peterbj7]

It is unethical. While the SSI card is just as good as the PADI card, the deal you made was to complete a PADI certification. My guess is she did not renew her PADI teaching status. While there's nothing wrong with that, it is wrong to lie to you to get your business. I would ask for a PADI certification or a refund.

Except that we're now in July and all this appears to have happened recently. Can the OP say when she started & completed each stage of her training? If the instructor was entitled to give out the temporary card but now can't certify her then that is most certainly a matter PADI can/should deal with. If she was never entitled to give the temporary card then it seems to me a matter of fraud. If PADI were never in the loop there's not much they can do, but both this woman's employer on Cozumel (I believe the OP said she worked for a shop) and SSI will have views on this.

And if she wasn't entitled to give out the temporary card she probably also wasn't entitled to conduct the dives, and they are of no worth. Neither PADI nor SSI will recognise dives conducted by someone they don't recognise as an instructor.

Simply issuing an SSI certification isn't the answer either, for the reasons the OP gave. SSI should most certainly be made aware that there is an instructor out there who is disposed to hand out SSI certifications not properly earned. In fact, I've just told them, and PADI as well, because between them they need to act against this "instructor".

All in all a mess that reflects badly on the scuba industry but which sadly is not untypical of a lot of what goes on. The customer has no way of anticipating this up-front, so it's high time the industry put its affairs in order.

 

[josh]

If the instructor was entitled to give out the temporary card but now can't certify her then that is most certainly a matter PADI can/should deal with. .

Eh? To take the students, the Instructor should have been a teaching status instructor. No ifs, ands or buts about it. The question is - was the instructor was in current teaching status at the time of the course - and the time of issuing the temporary card -thats the certification!


If the Instructors rating lapsed *after* the course - so what - she was a current teaching status Instructor at the time of the course and PADI would issue the plastic (thats why cert date is on the PIC)

My guess is the Instructor was not in status at the time of the course- either knowingly or unknowingly - if knowingly, then she clearly defrauded OP. If unknowingly, well, then its just a mess....

 

[KrisB]

make absolutely sure that if you're doing check out dives somewhere outside of where you did your coursework and pool dives that the certifying instructor is current and active in the agency of your choice.

I'd go beyond this -- every student diver should be asking the instructor for their certification card to see that they are current and in teaching status with the agency they're promoting. The instructor should also be willing to supply his or her cert number well in advance (if we're talking about a vacation dive situation) to allow the diver to check with the agency ahead of time.

I've seen this happen too often -- both with referrals coming to me from an inactive instructor, and seeing instructors I know to be outside of teaching status accepting students. Unfortunately, the only way to resolve this is to have the students be proactive in confirming it, then filing a complaint with the agency if they were mislead.

No matter how this gets resolved, PLEASE file a Quality Assurance complaint with PADI for this instructor -- she's making us all look bad!

 

[jscott099]

What a shame. I hope you at least file a QC complaint with PADI. Possibly SSI as well as I wouldn't be surprised if there were violations in those standards as well.

I teach both PADI and SSI, and as this post chain exhibits, there is an incredible amount of lack of consumer knowledge about the supposed differences in these 2 (and others) organizations. The suggestion to get the SSI card but go get a copy of their OW manual and read really blew me away. Other than the chapters on dive planning and tables, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any significant differences.

And the other post about the card and sticker. If you aren't SSI certified, why post information you don't really know about? I continue to be disappointed at the perpetuating concern that if one gets certified with one agency, it is harder to do continuing ed with another.

The instructor who provided the referral forms should have explained exactl;y what the procedure was going to be as well. What a slop job this whole affair was.

 

[rakkis]

I can't add much to what everyone already said. What matters for you is that you received adequate training to dive safely.

... I'll probably just stick with the SSI card assuming she can pull the right strings to get them for us. ...

Make no mistake about this. There are no strings to be pulled. In order for this to happen as you described, this instructor would be falsifying paperwork and lying to SSI when she submits your paperwork.

In all practicality, this doesn't matter to you.... However, if someone told me an outright lie to get me to pay them money, then keeps making up lies to cover the original lies, I'd be hesitant to trust anything they ever said/did.

So does one trust such a person with their safety???