St Louis Dive Schools?

[diverbob]

Dont buy a bunch of over priced gear from your LDS. I've bought used Reg's and BC's on e-bay for a third of the cost of new ones.

You say you have bought BCs and Regs on Ebay. That is plural. According to your profile, you havent logged 100 dives yet, so why so many BCs and regs? Just curious. I for one, dont wish to be buying my life support system on ebay.

You can find good deals on the online stores too. And I've bought good equioment from the LDS but paid moore for it.

It amazes me how many people dont see the big picture. If you have a good LDS, and treat them right, the deals get better, and you come out a lot further ahead in the long run. a LDS has to make money. They are not a non-for-profit organization. So yes, they do have to charge a little more than some online warehouse. If everyone keeps buying their stuff online,and all the LDS go out of business, its going to get really expensive to send your tanks in every year for a vis. How much is shipping on that? Or to get an air fill even. If you dont own your own tanks, will the online shops have a deal like Netflix, where they keep shipping tanks all over the country?

 

[Jim-C]

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[Jim-C]

How is demonstrating a skill not teaching?

Actually, DiveMasters and DMCs can not "teach". Divemasters can demonstrate a skill, but they can not teach it. The DMCs are pretty much just there to see how classes work, and help keep an eye on the clas

 

[Jim-C]

I have bought moore than one reg and bc because I have moore than one diver in my family.

Have you compared LDS prices to the on line stores? Its not just a little moore.

When it's time to fill your cars tank do you look for the cheapest gas or most exspensive. Remeber both stations need to make a profit.

 

[b1gcountry]

Have you compared LDS prices to the on line stores? Its not just a little moore.

Online stores are worth looking into, but they are not always cheaper, and LDS usually throw in stuff like first years maintenance in the price. Tanks are almost always cheaper at the LDS than over the internet, and small purchases are seldom worthwhile over the internet because of shipping.

I would not recommend Ebay for scuba gear. Buying used depends on condition a lot, and there is no good way to tell how well something has been serviced over the internet. The good stuff sells for just about what you can get it on Leisure Pro for, only you need to service any reg you buy from Ebay. I'm sure there are some bargains through ebay, but you have to be lucky, patient, knowledgable, and not too picky about what brand you end up with. I would say a better deal if you are looking to save money is to stop by your LDS when they are selling their old rental gear.

As to a DM teaching a class, the instructor is in charge, the DMs will just come in and have students repeat the skills they already know, keep an eye on students, and help them when they have troubles. Sometimes it is better to have someone with less expereince helping out a student when they are having problems because they can better understand the difficulty since they are closer to the "just beginning" stage than someone who took their OW class 25 yrs ago. It can give a different perspective to the student. Besides that though, any DM or DMC should be able to adequately help a beginning student with basic skills. When getting to the rescue level, DMs are basically fake victims anyway, so it should not matter at all. After helping with two classes as a DMC myself, the students never could tell who the DMs were and who the DMCs were even at the end of the class. If I had advice, I would say look into the number of DMs and DMCs helping out in the class more than anything. The higher the ratio, the more attention you will have in the pool and at the lake.

Tom

 

[b1gcountry]

The PADI program seems sedined to teach underwater tourists how to breath underwater without drowning./ There isn't much in the course that I could describe as diving.

Man, all I can say is that if that's the kind of OW class you used teach, then you were doing it wrong! I know you aren't fond of PADI, and I don't like a lot of the things they do either, especially most of their useless specialty courses, but if you have a halfway competent instructor you will leave the OW class as a relatively safe diver that still has a lot to learn. Like I said in my original post, you will learn about as much as you can learn in one weekend of diving.

I don't see anything wrong with more than two dives in a day...and niether does PADI. LOL

I believe the PADI instructor manual limits the number of dives OW students can make in one day. In the latest course standards section, it states that no more than two OW training dives may be made in one day. It allows three if one is a night dive, or one is a Snorkel, IIRC. From our classes though: 8am meet at boat 9am get to dive site 9-10 gear up and do snorkeling skills, weight check 10-11 dive with no skills 11-1:30 lunch and log dives 2pm second dive site 2-3 skills demonstrations: tired diver tow, cramp removal, Fin pivot, OOA assist, regulator recovery, mask flood and clear, etc. 3-4 UW tour with skills (mask clearing while swimming, reg recovery, OOA, all sprung on them while diving) followed by weight check 4-5 return to marina, and unload gear for tomorrow. 5-5:30 log dives, debriefing. Our dives are done in Arkansas where it is usually 90-100 degrees with high humidity. I am ready for a shower and some down time after each day.

Good training leaves a diver proficient at that level. If the OW course claimes to qualify the student to independantly plan and conduct OW dives in conditions as good as those they were trained in then the student should be able to dive well under those conditions. Unfortunately standards don't require that and niether do many instructors.

And if a student does not meet those standards they should not be passed. If a student can't dive well enough in benign conditions and is passed, that's on the instructor, not the dive agency...and it doesn't matter which dive agency either.

I never found that kneeling has any value at all in dive training. If the student can't avoid the bottom early in training, I'd rather see them remain horizontal.

The point is that the diver needs to be able to clear a mask midwater while maintaining control of position and awareness and contact with their buddy. I wouldn't even take a diver out of the pool before they can do that.

First off, in a pool, there really is no midwater. In an 8' pool, you are either on the surface of on the bottom. You can't clear a mask well straight horizontal, your mask has to be about vertical. Buoyancy control is HARD. Expecting beginner students to be able to do this right away is setting them up for failure. There are a lot of mechanics to doing these skills, and they need to know them before they can perfect a skill. Doing them in easy conditions first lets students gain confidence and prepare for doing it under more stressful conditions midwater.

An OW class does not make you a good diver. Period. Call your ideal class what you may, but even after their first four dives, your students will have less than ideal buoyancy control and comfort level in the water than someone who has been diving for a while. Are some classes better than others? Yes, definitely. Is a more intense, more in-depth course beneficial? Defintely, it would make students better divers. Would most students still choose the easy one weekend courses? By far! People wanting to learn are generally doing it in their spare time, and there just isn't a lot of that for most people. Splitting up instruction into multiple classes gives students more flexibility in scheduling, in changing instructors, or in dropping the sport altogether if they didn't enjoy it. The main problem I have with the courses being offered is in the advanced classes. You really don't learn anything of value in your AOW class if you teach it to the minimum requirements. I learned more just from diving with more expereinced divers and self study. Of course, I still practice all the skills whenever I go into OW, and most divers do not. If you are open to practicing skills outside of classes, I think you can give yourself a really good education just by practicing all the skills you learned in continually more difficult conditions. You really don't need an instructor to learn, some people learn more independently anyway.

The real problem with most dive students is not in the courses, but in the drive of the students to learn more. Many people looking to get certified are just looking for the quick fix and easy certification (probably not the majority, but they are probably the ones that stand out as being incompetent on a dive boat....I've found that one incompetent diver on a boat stands out in my mind more than the other 9 excellent divers.)

Tom

 

[Steve50]

PADI manual "Student divers may participate
in a maximum of three
open water scuba dives in a​

single day."

 

[diverbob]

In my opinion, it doesnt matter how many training dives you do in one day. The OW class is to teach you the basics, and make sure you can handle issues when/if they arise. It is up to the individual diver to gain experience, and progress with their diving, either through formal classes, or through diving with more experienced buddies. I can honestly say, I think I have learned more from diving with one particular buddy, than I ever had in any of my classes that I have taken. (Thanks again, Bill)

 

[b1gcountry]

PADI manual "Student divers may participate
in a maximum of three
open water scuba dives in a​

single day."

Thank you. I was off by one dive.
Tom

 

[Jim-C]

I would not recommend Ebay for scuba gear. Buying used depends on condition a lot, and there is no good way to tell how well something has been serviced over the internet. The good stuff sells for just about what you can get it on Leisure Pro for, only you need to service any reg you buy from Ebay. I'm sure there are some bargains through ebay, but you have to be lucky, patient, knowledgable, and not too picky about what brand you end up with. I would say a better deal if you are looking to save money is to stop by your LDS when they are selling their old rental gear.



Tom

Most of the gear I've bought on ebay belonged to someone who dove for a couple of years and quit and they just want to make some of thier money back. The used gear I've seen in the LDS is usually as is and needs to be serviced too. When your LDS doesn't want thier OLD USED RENTAL GEAR thats why its OLD & USED.