St Louis Dive Schools?

[b1gcountry]

FYI Y-Kiki recently changed hands and location. I guess about 2 years ago??? I mainly don't go there because their location is not convenient for me.
Tom

 

[diverbob]

definitely new ownership(that in itself is a long story), but as far as location, they are in the same plaza, just further down by Dobbs. Store is bigger too.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I disagree. I don't think anyone should ever think of their training as being completed.

I didn't mean to imply that the divers training was over for life. However, at the completion of a specific course and testing the student should be proficient at that level.

The PADI program was designed to teach you as much as you can in only four dives (one weekend).

The PADI program seems sedined to teach underwater tourists how to breath underwater without drowning./ There isn't much in the course that I could describe as diving.

I think its a bad idea to try to fit more than two dives in one day, especially considering how long each training dive really lasts, and pushing it beyond two days in a row would be a lot for a new diver.

I don't see anything wrong with more than two dives in a day...and niether does PADI. LOL

Even "good dive training" would start at basically the same place as a decent OW class. The difference is that it is now up to the student to advance their own skills through additional classes, or with more informal training sessions.

Good training leaves a diver proficient at that level. If the OW course claimes to qualify the student to independantly plan and conduct OW dives in conditions as good as those they were trained in then the student should be able to dive well under those conditions. Unfortunately standards don't require that and niether do many instructors.

I agree that performing skills on knees is not realistic, and I try to get students to practice skills in midwater, or even without a mask on, but not all students progress that far unfortunately. Still, learning to do a mask flood for the first time should probably be done kneeling.

I never found that kneeling has any value at all in dive training. If the student can't avoid the bottom early in training, I'd rather see them remain horizontal.

The urge to be vertical when there is something to do or a problem is a bad habit. Being on the bottom is a bad habit. Probably the worst is that the method of mask clearing often taught to kneeling divers is...well...wrong. It generally finds students looking up at the sky to clear which isn't necessary and only re-enforces the bad habit of wanting to be vertical. Students also end up trying to take a big deep breath to clear. They can get away with that if they are plastered to the bottom but when we are diving, we need to control breathing to control position in the water. Diving is the task that needs to be given priority and the mask can be cleared while breathing normally for position control and exhaling out the nose.

The point is that the diver needs to be able to clear a mask midwater while maintaining control of position and awareness and contact with their buddy. I wouldn't even take a diver out of the pool before they can do that.

 

[Wozzer]

Well "discover scuba" was pretty freaking cool today, I'll be signing up for the OW cert ASAP. The only problem being that the mask clearing method I learned sounds perfectly described below...damn. Guess I'll hope that my actual instructor(s) have some better info. If not, hmm well I guess I'm just screwed then eh?

Probably the worst is that the method of mask clearing often taught to kneeling divers is...well...wrong. It generally finds students looking up at the sky to clear which isn't necessary and only re-enforces the bad habit of wanting to be vertical. Students also end up trying to take a big deep breath to clear. They can get away with that if they are plastered to the bottom but when we are diving, we need to control breathing to control position in the water. Diving is the task that needs to be given priority and the mask can be cleared while breathing normally for position control and exhaling out the nose.

The point is that the diver needs to be able to clear a mask midwater while maintaining control of position and awareness and contact with their buddy. I wouldn't even take a diver out of the pool before they can do that.

 

[SteveC]

Wozzer,

Where did you do your discover scuba at?

 

[Jim-C]

Unfortunately thiers now way to know if your going to get a good instructor. All the shops have good and bad instructors. You might ask if you will be taught by a Dive Master or Dive Master Canditate, it makes a difference. Sometimes people still learning or used to teach. Beware of the shop that wants you to buy thier equipment for a discount on your class cost. It's usually marked up way moore than the discount offered for buying it. You wont know what gear you want to own untill you have dove for awhile. Any shop not willing to include rental gear in the cost of the class, might be moore interested in selling dive gear than teaching you.

 

[Wozzer]

Unfortunately thiers now way to know if your going to get a good instructor. All the shops have good and bad instructors. You might ask if you will be taught by a Dive Master or Dive Master Canditate, it makes a difference. Sometimes people still learning or used to teach. Beware of the shop that wants you to buy thier equipment for a discount on your class cost. It's usually marked up way moore than the discount offered for buying it. You wont know what gear you want to own untill you have dove for awhile. Any shop not willing to include rental gear in the cost of the class, might be moore interested in selling dive gear than teaching you.

Hmm you're probably right, unfortunately *all* of the shops around here do the $100 discount with mask/snorkel/fins/boots purchase, so kinda hard to decide what to make of that. Good advice on trying to nail down who the instructor will be, I think there's probably just an element of luck too. Hopefully I'm now enlightened enough that it will be okay; I can ask them if I can practice the skills in midwater rather than kneeling, hey they might even say yes

 

[Jim-C]

Dont buy a bunch of over priced gear from your LDS. I've bought used Reg's and BC's on e-bay for a third of the cost of new ones. You can find good deals on the online stores too. And I've bought good equioment from the LDS but paid moore for it.

 

[Quarrior]

Dont buy a bunch of over priced gear from your LDS. I've bought used Reg's and BC's on e-bay for a third of the cost of new ones. You can find good deals on the online stores too. And I've bought good equioment from the LDS but paid moore for it.

I do not recommend any NEW diver buy equipment such as BC or reg on eBay unless they know a lot about what it is they are buying.

As you gain experience you will gain knowledge as well. Some of that knowledge will be equipment knowledge and you can then make purchases on eBay based on it.

Take your time, rent for a while, get your feet wet.

 

[diverbob]

You might ask if you will be taught by a Dive Master or Dive Master Canditate, it makes a difference. Sometimes people still learning or used to teach.

Actually, DiveMasters and DMCs can not "teach". Divemasters can demonstrate a skill, but they can not teach it. The DMCs are pretty much just there to see how classes work, and help keep an eye on the class.

Beware of the shop that wants you to buy thier equipment for a discount on your class cost. It's usually marked up way moore than the discount offered for buying it.

I know that is not true. At least at the shop I work for. I know the owners of another shop here in town, and I know for a fact they dont do that either.

You wont know what gear you want to own untill you have dove for awhile. Any shop not willing to include rental gear in the cost of the class, might be moore interested in selling dive gear than teaching you.

With the exception of mask, fins and snorkel, all other gear is included for rental at all shops I have ever been in and talked to. And as fas as knowing what gear you will want, a good shop will talk to you, and see what kind of diving you want to do, and help you make an informed decision. And if you still arent sure, when you are in pool session, and in the OW session of class, look at the staff. See what they are using, and ask them about their gear.