SSI Class - Failed

[Dive the World]

How many SSI, PADI, or NAUI instructors reading this thread have flunked 7 OW students in one class after passing the written exam but before the OW dive?

How many have flunked 7 OW students under the same circumstances over a one year period?

Five years?

Their careers?

I'd really like to hear some instructors' responses.

Excellent proposal - lets establish the base line. - Thanks Bilsant/.

 

[ams511]

It seemed I touched a nerve.

A few things were said that are spot on....

It's impossible to give all three in 90% of business. Were you not paying attention the last decade when Japan was bankrupt. Sure, they were giving all three, and the auto manufacturers and other businesses were in financial ruin. Guess who bailed them out? I guess you missed that college class.

I did not miss that class but I think you did. The Japanese economy has been in a malaise for some time. If you know why it is then you are wasting your time filling tanks you should be an economist. There is a Nobel Prize waiting for you. However, the economic problems in Japan have little to do with the Japanese business philosophy. Just as the economy and the deficit we face in the US is not due to companies such as Boeing, Microsoft, or Google. If you look at Japanese brands such as Toyota, Honda, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, they are considered among the best in the world, both in the US and abroad.

Lets take Walmart. The largest company in the world. Do they give all three? Nope. They have the lowest customer satisfaction in our region. Their meat isn't as good as say Publix or Sweetbay. Their clientele is subpar and as such, the affluent refuse to shop there. If a person goes to the checkout with two shopping carts to buy groceries and their EBT card gets rejected, guess how long that shopping cart sits before the items get put back on the shelf. Two sometimes three hours. Then when an employee gets a chance the meat, milk, cheese gets put right back on the shelf.

Their customer service is horrendous, and the time it takes to get through the 8 active checkout lines (despite having 35 lanes available) is slow as can be. So, they got "PRICE" right. Its the cheapest in the world for goods. Did they get "GOOD" right? That's debatable. My idea of good is generally higher than most. Did they get "FAST" right? Not if you consider standing in line for 20 minutes at 1am on a Tuesday "FAST". This is the largest business in the world and they are certainly making a profit. Did they even get two out of three right? Lets look at Mcdonalds. They are cheap, can't deny that. They are fast, can't deny that either. Are they good? Not in my opinion. This is the most successful and largest fast food chain in the world. Did they get 3 out of 3 right? Nope.

Actually Walmart did get three out of three right. When they were building their business and knocking off Sears and Kmart, Walmart was very focused on price, quality, and customer service. It used to be if there were three people in line, they opened another one. If a price scanned wrong, the item was yours free. As they became larger and their competitors became weaker, they no longer need to be focused on customer service. They are only focused on one thing and that is their stock price.

you're going to have a hard time changing my mind. I minored in business, majored in political science, and have run half a dozen successful business from small restaurants to large scale developments, to scuba instruction to harvesting organs for research.

I can see you are closed-minded. The success of companies such as Leisurepro in Scuba, and other internet retailers such as Amazon provides compelling evidence that internet retailing is a very major threat to brick and mortar businesses. As further evidence, look at what happened to companies such as Circuit City, Borders, Blockbuster, CompUSA, Computer City and now Best Buy.

You want justification for the markup at the LDS? We offer something an online store can't offer. A face and a name that comes with great customer service. You call me at 2am for a dive on Sunday morning and I'll drive to the shop open the doors and get your fills, or your spear gun tip. Do we make a fortune on air fills and spear gun tips? Not a chance. But we are here because we love you. We have been here for 35+ years. We'll be here for 35 more. Our business model works. We are debt free. We have a loyal customer base. We make a small profit. We've watched 8 shops come and go in the past 3 years, but we're doing great. Our customers love us. Our product lines love us. We pay our bills and make enough money to survive. We don't get rich. We survive doing something we love. Which I believe is exactly where we should be financially.

Perhaps your business does provide excellent customer service but many dive shops do not. There are many threads addressing that issue. However, I do not need airfills and speargun tips at 2:00am so why should I need to pay the markup? I am sure most of your clients do not need that level of service either (unless you run a specialized shop), so what exactly do you provide to your average client to justify your markup? [/QUOTE]

But, all that said, staying on track. I truly believe the instructor in the OP's post ripped you off. I believe it was calculated, planned, and crooked. I hope he gets a beating. -- Honestly, if you were in FL, i'd give you the written test, let you demonstrate the skills, and sign your card.

Agreed, the OP received a bad deal.

-

 

[eponym]

Going back to the original poster's complaint, I'd like to see if we can somehow benchmark what reasonable expectations should be. How many SSI, PADI, or NAUI instructors reading this thread have flunked 7 OW students in one class after passing the written exam but before the OW dive? How many have flunked 7 OW students under the same circumstances over a one year period? Five years? Their careers? I'd really like to hear some instructors' responses.

I have certified just 200 OWD students, teaching the SSI course. There were three others who started my courses and did not cert and never went to open water. Two quit because they had to admit to psychological issues (stress) in just being under water. This is not uncommon in the general population, but rare in those who want to learn to scuba. The third was deaf from brith and had inner-ear balance issues. The rest performed as I expected (or better) in open water training, in our fairly stressful Southern Oregon conditions. I may just be lucky. I do give students more pool time if I think they need it, but that's rare. Then again, our courses run about 24 hours class + pool, versus the very abbreviated time posted by the OP.

 

[flots am]

I can see you are closed-minded. The success of companies such as Leisurepro in Scuba, and other internet retailers such as Amazon provides compelling evidence that internet retailing is a very major threat to brick and mortar businesses. As further evidence, look at what happened to companies such as Circuit City, Borders, Blockbuster, CompUSA, Computer City and now Best Buy.

They could have all saved their business by changing their business model. None of the above locations offered any real added-value. Chances are excellent that any random high-school student was as knowledgeable as any of their salespeople.

Sam's Club and BJs and Costco are all doing quite nicely, selling the same type of items.

They could have become "better" or "cheaper." Staying the same was not an option.

flots.

 

[Hawkwood]

Devon's post about Mcdonalds reminds me of a sign that I read once. And it's probably the best sign I've ever seen.

Good
Fast
Cheap


Pick any two.

In consulting you think of a triangle with "quality", "time", "cost" at the corners of the triangle. Which you provide and the relative importance of each to provide can be indicated by a point anywhere in that triangle. The only way to provide all three equally is a point in the middle - mediocrity for all three factors. If "cost" is the over-riding factor, one of the remaining two will suffer, i.e. you can not provide all three as a priority.

 

[Superlyte27]

In consulting you think of a triangle with "quality", "time", "cost" at the corners of the triangle. Which you provide and the relative importance of each to provide can be indicated by a point anywhere in that triangle. The only way to provide all three equally is a point in the middle - mediocrity for all three factors. If "cost" is the over-riding factor, one of the remaining two will suffer.

Thanks Hawkwood. I guess those professors at state university who taught me the same thing just didn't know what they were talking about.

 

[Hawkwood]

Ha! It wasn't aimed at you Superlyte27.

It was for those who seem to insist that one can provide a cheap, quality product, with no time restriction. As you pointed out, it's not going to happen. Something is going to suffer.

 

[flots am]

It was for those who seem to insist that one can provide a cheap, quality product, with no time restriction. As you pointed out, it's not going to happen. Something is going to suffer.

Except for the "cheap" part, if the "product" is training, then that's not exactly correct.

Anyplace that does a sufficient volume to always have a class running can easily roll a small percentage of students into the next class for additional training for no (measurable) additional cost.

Obviously if you're failing 100% of your students, this isn't maintainable, however with the percentages normally seen with a good instructor, it's not difficult.

As for price, if you're losing money on training to begin with, then having a high volume won't help . . .

flots.

 

[redacted]

In consulting you think of a triangle with "quality", "time", "cost" at the corners of the triangle. Which you provide and the relative importance of each to provide can be indicated by a point anywhere in that triangle. The only way to provide all three equally is a point in the middle - mediocrity for all three factors. If "cost" is the over-riding factor, one of the remaining two will suffer, i.e. you can not provide all three as a priority.

So you let the inherent limitations of a triangle restrict your alternatives! Maybe you should try to think of it as 3 separate bins of ingredients to be mixed in any way you want. Then you can have all three if that is the recipe for success in your business.

 

[ams511]

They could have all saved their business by changing their business model. None of the above locations offered any real added-value. Chances are excellent that any random high-school student was as knowledgeable as any of their salespeople.

Sam's Club and BJs and Costco are all doing quite nicely, selling the same type of items.

They could have become "better" or "cheaper." Staying the same was not an option.

flots.

Consumers are starting to look at B&M businesses as "showrooms", they go there to look then shop online for a better price. As a consumer I can go online for product reviews or go to BBSs like Scubaboard if I want users opinions. I do not need a salesperson trying to steer me to the product that provides him with the most commission.