Split fin hate?

[chillyinCanada]

This whole thread is pretty amusing to me, a Mares x-stream, an Atomic SMOTW, and an Apollo Bio fin owner and user. Can split fin users stir up the sand with their fin vortices? Yes of course they can. But, as a rec diver that rarely dives with the same diver, and who has had a long string of rec insta-buddies, most of which were using whatever paddle fins the dive op was renting/supplying, I have seen more silting and reef damage done by said divers than any competent diver using split fins.

This split fin bashing bit is getting pretty tiresome, and it is time we accept fins to divers are like golf clubs to golfers: They are tools. Period. It isn't the fin that creates the problem, it is the diver. The finest diver I have ever met or dived with is a CD with over 50 years of dive experience, and who was still doing deep tech dives in his 80's, and when I spent a week diving with his dive shop group at Bonaire in 2010, he was using a jacket and SP Twin Jet Max fins.

You do realize that the OP specifically asked, right?

But since you brought it up, some tools are better than others.

 

[Still Kicking]

So when did the split fin hate start? I remember, not all that long ago, if you were not buying into split fins you were just dumb, crazy, a bad diver. Now, if you're not jumping on the Supernova or slinging a Jet clone from the 60's then your insane! Are we all that marketing diven?

I believe David Byrne said it best:

And you may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"
And you may ask yourself, "Where is that large automobile?"
And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful house"
And you may tell yourself, "These are not my beautiful split fins"

Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
Into the blue again, after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground

 

[chillyinCanada]

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was

 

[johndiver999]

Who scissor kicks all the time? I actually hate it when diving,
Frog kick is so much more relaxing,
If it really strong then scissor kick is more powerful.
But to relax, modified fludder/frog kick works well,

.....

 

[johndiver999]

no wonder I can't sell my fins!

For Sale - Atomic Aquatics Natures Wing Fins Blue, medium Split fins

They are exactly like shown in the link below. I got the fins from a package deal of gear. They are blue and sized medium and are in very good condition, with almost zero scratches, they look like they were used on one dive. About perfect. Since they seem to retail for $250 and up, how...

scubaboard.com

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't think that I said "outright hatred". But lemme think about that and maybe I could work up to it.

I was more responding to the title of the OP.

 

[boulderjohn]

Who scissor kicks all the time? I actually hate it when diving,
Frog kick is so much more relaxing,
If it really strong then scissor kick is more powerful.
But to relax, modified fludder/frog kick works well,

We had a thread on the "scissor kick" topic a while ago. At the risk of going off topic, I will summarize what I got from it.

• Go to any swimming-related website and look up "scissor kick." You will see the term defined by experts. You will not see a single one that describes what people do on scuba.
• At some point, some people (notably in an agency we are apparently not allowed to name) decided that what 99.986% of the world calls a "flutter kick" is actually a scissor kick, and they began making the distinction so clear that whenever anyone talks about the flutter kick, someone has to jump in and correct them. "Well, you may call it a flutter kick, but we with superior knowledge know it is really a scissor kick."

 

[boulderjohn]

One of the problems people have in evaluating split fins is that they lump them all together. As someone who has tried to teach kicking skills to people with a wide variety of fins, I have seen a major difference depending upon the stiffness of the fin.

With flutter kicks, every part of the stroke propels you forward. With some more advanced kicks, there is a definite difference between the power stroke and the recovery stroke, and a poorly done recovery stroke works against the goal of the power stroke. With the recovery stroke, the fin should cut through the water like a knife, creating a minimum of resistance. Some split fins are so soft and floppy that they can't do a recovery stroke without twisting and bending, creating resistance. After seeing that, I tried a pair of floppy splits myself. I felt like I didn't even have fins on, like I just had booties, yet, I was definitely being propelled forward when I flutter kicked. I could not do any of the more advanced kicks, though.

Now for the contrast.

Years ago I was teaching a pool refresher course to a father and son, and they brought their own gear --Atomic split fins. When I saw the son's fins, I immediately told him they couldn't be his--they were far too big for him. Sure enough, he must have taken someone else's fins by mistake the last time they dived. I ended up having him wear my fins, even though they were a bit too big for him, and I took his, which were far too big even for me--the spring straps did not hold my foot in, and I had to use weird foot angles to keep the fins on my feet. Amazingly enough, I was able to do a variety of kicks effectively. As an instructor, I normally used a lot of back kicking and helicopter turning to maintain position with students, and I was able to do that surprisingly well with those big, stiff split fins falling off my feet. I had to use the face of the fin as the primary surface rather than the sidewalls, but I was pretty efficient. When I had them swim down the slope of the pool to the deep end, I had no trouble backing down ahead of them.

 

[Gone for diving]

It’s not that we won’t tell you, we can’t tell you.
Read the TOS.
Just like politics, diving has become very polarized

We had a thread on the "scissor kick" topic a while ago. At the risk of going off topic, I will summarize what I got from it.

• Go to any swimming-related website and look up "scissor kick." You will see the term defined by experts. You will not see a single one that describes what people do on scuba.
• At some point, some people (notably in an agency we are apparently not allowed to name) decided that what 99.986% of the world calls a "flutter kick" is actually a scissor kick, and they began making the distinction so clear that whenever anyone talks about the flutter kick, someone has to jump in and correct them. "Well, you may call it a flutter kick, but we with superior knowledge know it is really a scissor kick."

Is there a thread that we can duce who this mysterious agency is?
Or maybe give me the first letter,

I was using sissor kick and fludder kick interchangeably.....

Now you got me watching swimming videos......

Sissor kick is used in side stroke,
And one leg sorta tends to the most work and movement,,,, yes I have not seen anyone kick like that in scuba...
Have to try it

I was just saying kicking from the hip when dive gets old fast and I naturally switch to frog kick without thinking,
It's a much more natural feeling for scuba,
free diving fludder will make alot more sense.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was just saying kicking from the hip when dive gets old fast

I have only tried split fins on occasion, but when I was an instructor, I had to go over gear options (pros and cons) with students. I repeated what I had been told by people supposedly in the know: with split fins, the flutter kick works better if the kick starts primarily with the knee.

A full leg flutter kick is rarely necessary. Maybe if trying to outswim a salt water crocodile.