Spiegel Incident

[diverrex]

I didn't read the full original thread. Does anyone how what size tank he had? Maybe it's because out here in CA so many of us dive with a 100 or bigger on all our dives, even 30 foot beach dives, but I'm always surprised when I hear of divers doing 130 foot dives, with some current, and only using an 80. Sure it can be done, but should it? Not that starting out with more gas excuses poor gas management and not monitoring your gas supply during the dive, but it does help.

 

[Scott L]

I didn't read the full original thread. Does anyone how what size tank he had? Maybe it's because out here in CA so many of us dive with a 100 or bigger on all our dives, even 30 foot beach dives, but I'm always surprised when I hear of divers doing 130 foot dives, with some current, and only using an 80. Sure it can be done, but should it? Not that starting out with more gas excuses poor gas management and not monitoring your gas supply during the dive, but it does help.

Not only is the diver's gas capacity restictive to their needs their capacity to render aid (gas) to a buddy is extremely limited.

 

[SailNaked]

I once had the thought, and may have even said it out loud "what difference does it make how much air you get back on the boat with as long as you run out at the surface and not below, then I remembered, that extra air is not yours, it belongs to your buddy should he need it.
I do not know what happened, but there is no excuse for bolting to the surface from 130 ft.
If he was truly out of air and had no buddy then you have to ask why? why did he not have a buddy with 500# of air for him to use on the way to the surface, and why did he not have his own air, and why did he not check his Gauges before running out of air. we may never know why but we can practice safe buddy diving our selves. Dive alone if you like, but then maybe you should have some other form of redundancy and back up plan and at least check your gauges.

 

[DandyDon]

was he diving nitrox? or air. nitrox im thinking

Why did you think that?

kinda weird that his TWIN brother was not in the same situation regarding air as the one who got injured. i know everyone is different but twins usually have the same body types etc...

Did you read identical twin somewhere? Fraternal twins can vary greatly.

I didn't read the full original thread. Does anyone how what size tank he had? Maybe it's because out here in CA so many of us dive with a 100 or bigger on all our dives, even 30 foot beach dives, but I'm always surprised when I hear of divers doing 130 foot dives, with some current, and only using an 80. Sure it can be done, but should it? Not that starting out with more gas excuses poor gas management and not monitoring your gas supply during the dive, but it does help.

Last I heard, there was not many rental or charter boat tanks larger than 80 cf on Key Largo. They seem to like the standardization of the 80s a lot there, and many Ops think nothing to taking OW divers on air to the SG. I haven't been in a few years tho, so someone correct me if needed; ty!

 

[Scubagolf]

Of all the accidents I have read on SB, this one's cause is the easiest to understand, even with the little information we have. Following a reasonable dive plan, using the buddy system, some simple gas management and not bolting to the surface and this event never happens... actually doing just one of them and this event never happens.

Sounds about right. It sounds to me like the SG is not a place for relative novices (no pun intended) to be diving. I will remember this one, for sure.

 

[Crush]

I looked up the article pertaining to this accident on CDNN (link: CDNN :: Spiegel Grove Scuba Diving Accident Victim Praying for a Miracle ). Yes, I know many of you hate CDNN.

The following excerpt is attributed to the victim (Matthew):
"I told my brother I had to go," Matthew said. "I tried to ascend slowly, at a small angle. But as I finned, the air in my vest expanded. That drew me up quicker than I expected."

This excerpt, which also appears in the article, is editorial and not attributed to the victim: An ascent that should have taken 20 minutes only took about five.

Now, this is purely baseless speculation, but who wants to bet that panic caused the diver to want to surface as quickly as possible, and that he hit the surface in substantially less than five minutes?

 

[divebunny13]

I didn't read the full original thread. Does anyone how what size tank he had? Maybe it's because out here in CA so many of us dive with a 100 or bigger on all our dives, even 30 foot beach dives, but I'm always surprised when I hear of divers doing 130 foot dives, with some current, and only using an 80. Sure it can be done, but should it? Not that starting out with more gas excuses poor gas management and not monitoring your gas supply during the dive, but it does help.

Maybe it's a Florida/Caribbean thing but we run 80s here too. We have a couple 100s on hand for the hoovers but normally everyone is fine on the 80s, even when we run 120, 140 and 185ft dives.

I wonder if they were on a boat with a divemaster or if they were private. I just wonder if they had a dive plan given to them or if they had spiffy computers to tell them when to stop?

 

[tomfcrist]

Maybe it's a Florida/Caribbean thing but we run 80s here too. We have a couple 100s on hand for the hoovers but normally everyone is fine on the 80s, even when we run 120, 140 and 185ft dives.

Definatly a florida thing....I saw everyone and their brother diving 80's in florida when i lived there......In NC you'll get laughed off the boat diving an 80 on a 130ft dive.
Just the local culture i guess

 

[DandyDon]

Sounds about right. It sounds to me like the SG is not a place for relative novices (no pun intended) to be diving. I will remember this one, for sure.

Nope. The SG, Bibb, Duane, Eagle are fun dives, but deep, often in hard current (Gulf Stream passes thru Florida Straits before heading north; see File:North Atlantic Gyre.png - Wikimedia Commons) and some operators require at least AOW. I'd suggest AOW, Nitrox, 100-130 cf tanks, and some additional training. I used to dive with an Op in Tavenier that had large tanks but he sold out and I don't know who got his tanks.

A boat pick buddy I drew for the SG once diving with rental computer, etc got me to finally decide to get a pony rig. I'm still a klutz diver so I need a buddy I can depend on; not having much luck with that, even with my home bud - I carry my screwup bottle.

Maybe it's a Florida/Caribbean thing but we run 80s here too. We have a couple 100s on hand for the hoovers but normally everyone is fine on the 80s, even when we run 120, 140 and 185ft dives.

I wonder if they were on a boat with a divemaster or if they were private. I just wonder if they had a dive plan given to them or if they had spiffy computers to tell them when to stop?

80s to 185? :shocked2:

Charters like 80s because of the standardization of inventory and placement on a boat I think. I have had times that my requested 100 cf tanks did not fit the boat and had to be laid down on the deck, with the boatmate helping me saddle up.

 

[Mike Boswell]

From reading Post #12 on the related thread (quoted below) the father was using a "smaller tank" than his sons, the diver himself says this incident was caused by an expanding "vest" and a runaway ascent, the diver's brother says he was "not making the stops" and the article says the ascent "should have taken 20 minutes".

The other two divers suffered no harm and it's hard to make a case that they did not have a valid plan. To me this sounds like a case of uncontrolled ascent. Perhaps the diver panicked, perhaps his skills were rusty, or perhaps he was unfamiliar with his gear.


"For his latest dive, he wanted an up-close look of the U.S.S. Spiegel, a 510-foot-long U.S. Navy ship decommissioned after 33 years of service in 1989 and sunk as an artificial reef in May 2002.

After Robert surfaced with his smaller air tank, Matthew and Andrew were still in the Gulf's depths when reality set.

"I told my brother I had to go," Matthew said. "I tried to ascend slowly, at a small angle. But as I finned, the air in my vest expanded. That drew me up quicker than I expected."

His brother knew something was amiss.

"He was going pretty fast; not making the stops," Andrew said.

An ascent that should have taken 20 minutes only took about five.

On the surface, Matthew swam to the boat and started taking off his swim fins.

"I started noticing there was something wrong," he said. "I needed to gasp for air. There was a tingling on my chest, torso area. I got on the boat, and it took a while, but I lost sensation in my legs."

The U.S. Coast Guard was called, and an ambulance met them at the pier."