Spiegel Grove??

[Upwelling]

I'm not sure why people are saying the Spiegel is too difficult to do in the advanced class...my buddy and I did it for PADI Advanced a couple of years ago when it was still on its side and neither of us found it difficult...to take a class there when there's a heavy current might be a different story though.

 

[DandyDon]

I'm not sure why people are saying the Spiegel is too difficult to do in the advanced class...my buddy and I did it for PADI Advanced a couple of years ago when it was still on its side and neither of us found it difficult...to take a class there when there's a heavy current might be a different story though.

Yep - there is often a strong current there, and this can be a bit much for a lot of OW divers - and some others. Even tho you did it okay when it was on its side, that was also an increased risk.

Dived it yesterday, tho, no current, upright, and semi-ok viz. Whole new dive. Dipped to 119 feet in the hold with no overhead.

 

[Upwelling]

Lucky you! I'm looking forward to going back and trying it in its new & improved state one of these days.

Yep - there is often a strong current there, and this can be a bit much for a lot of OW divers - and some others. Even tho you did it okay when it was on its side, that was also an increased risk.

Dived it yesterday, tho, no current, upright, and semi-ok viz. Whole new dive. Dipped to 119 feet in the hold with no overhead.

 

[Misplaced Priority]

What is the standard procedure or better yet, what should I expect from a dive operator if they take you out to the Speigel Grove and the current is insane and you can't dive it! Is it customary for them to just keep all of the money you paid for the trip? Or do some give a partial refund or maybe a discounted trip out on a more favorable day? I understand and would not expect the dive operator to take a loss on your boat ride, but, hey, those guys know when the current is ripping and maybe have some obligation to warn you before getting on the boat that there was a 4 knot current and 4' to 6' seas. I'm trying to figure out if I should be upset with this operator that took me and my son on a two hundred dollar boat ride. After getting back to town, we stopped by some of the other shops just to browse and saw that they had cancelled for the day saying,"Spiegel Grove Undiveable"

 

[LJinFLA]

FWIW, in my experience, it somewhat depends on if the dive operator knows you well or not, and to some degree, how full his boat was. As you pointed out he does have the right to keep the money whether he cancels when he gets out there or you choose not to dive. Most will simply take you to another dive site if the intended location is undivable and better alternatives are available with less current. Some will offer rebates if no good alternative is available.

As you state, they ought to know at least the wave conditions before going out. It is often difficult if not impossible to know the current at a given site since the ocean is not that predictable. Most operators go out at the same time in the morning, so the first one to get there usually radios conditions to the other boats. The later boats have a better idea of what to expect, but even that is not entirely predictable. I have gone down on wrecks with absolutely no current, and then while down there, a major current will come out of nowhere, even when the conditions on the surface are reasonably unchanged. The boat cannot be held responsible for this.

$200 for two people seems like an awful lot for the Grove. Was this a 6 pack or private charter, or one of the larger dive boat operators? IF it was a smaller boat that went out for two people it is unlikely that he would offer you anything just due to the costs he incurred. Did he even offer sea conditions before the dive. If you asked him about conditions and he did not know before going out, I would not have gone out with him and would not again. Any good captain should know that before going to sea. If he did tell you and you decided to go out anyway, then you should have assumed that the currents would be ripping. Who called the dive, you or him once out there. Did he offer an alternative spot?

LJ

 

[Mverick]

What is the standard procedure or better yet, what should I expect from a dive operator if they take you out to the Speigel Grove and the current is insane and you can't dive it! Is it customary for them to just keep all of the money you paid for the trip? Or do some give a partial refund or maybe a discounted trip out on a more favorable day? I understand and would not expect the dive operator to take a loss on your boat ride, but, hey, those guys know when the current is ripping and maybe have some obligation to warn you before getting on the boat that there was a 4 knot current and 4' to 6' seas. I'm trying to figure out if I should be upset with this operator that took me and my son on a two hundred dollar boat ride. After getting back to town, we stopped by some of the other shops just to browse and saw that they had cancelled for the day saying,"Spiegel Grove Undiveable"

Usually, they take you to another site. Not home. I know, I wouldn't have paid the $200 if it was out and home. And, $200 for you and your son is high anyway. Unless you rented all your gear. I think it's $65 a person for a 2 tank dive isn't it?

Every boat I've ever went on down there was calling other boats all the time. Asking how the conditions were on the dive site. If you were the first operator there on that day. That would be why all the others canceled there dives there...

 

[DandyDon]

Interesting? I dived the Grove Saturday, and I think the highest price anyone is charging is $80 each. With 500+ dives, I guess you own your gear, but there would have been an extra charge for Nitrox.

I would have thought that they'd take you to an alternate site? 4-6 feet waves is not all that bad for a reef dive at least, if not the Duanne.

It might help if we knew which operator...?

 

[Misplaced Priority]

The boat took 8 of us out. 6 divers decided it was too bad to even get wet. Two others who exuded that they were hard core North Eastern divers and have never aborted a dive. Well they rolled over the side and took 5 minutes just to pull themselves to the mooring ball, which by the way was being held underwater by the current. They hung out there for about 10 minutes, sucked up half their air and came back huffing and puffing. I was iffy on going to start with as we just finished an early pre-dawn thunderstorm. I was surprised that we would go. I asked the DM, So you think we will be able to go with this wind? He said, no problem. Well I went along as I did not want to dissapoint my son and yes I was myself anxious to dive the SG. But you know that little voice in the back of your head? I just kept pushing him down rationalizing that, well if the DM says its a go, he must know what he is talking about. I have fished offshore Charleston most all my life and probably would not have gone in these conditions myself. Funny how your desire to make the dive can cause you to lower your threshold to do things you might not otherwise do. Anyway, at least I had enough sense to call the dive for me and my son before we found ourselves in a bad siutation. We could have ended up loosing alot more than a couple hundred bucks. I dove with this operation on average twice a year for the past 8 years. I just left feeling a little dupped. I kinda thought we could have gotten a coupon for a shallow reef dive or something. Bottom line, I should have listened to that little voice before we left the dock. At least he got my attention before the dive. I think I rather not give the name of the dive operator. I had always been pleased with them in the past. The good news is that we are going to give it another try in Feb. Although, it will be with another boat.

 

[DandyDon]

Based on this...

I asked the DM, So you think we will be able to go with this wind? He said, no problem.

and...

I dove with this operation on average twice a year for the past 8 years.

I'd suggest calling the owner, discussing this, and requesting a free trip next time.

There are many good operators in Key Largo, tho, if you feel the need to change. You cannot go wrong with Scuba-Do, for one.

 

[scubalifer]

Ok, you went to that depth in those conditions after twenty-five dives over a six year period? This is a statistic waiting to happen. I am glad you are ok but it is true that a disaster can be traced back to several small things that get overlooked. I also think who ever is training you should have made you go progressively deep and get in many more dives before taking you into that condition. But you are an adult and are responsible for yourself. I just don’t think there is any way possible to have your basic skills in place with an average of four dives a year. I would either say get busy diving or pick another hobby. IMHO.