Spearfishing with scuba

[ONESPEED]

Hey Chip. You breathe his air & I'll eat his fish

Fair enough.

He had better stay away from my nitrox though.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

For the most part it is the non-hunters who force protection while being fought tooth and nail by the hunting community. Then after numbers rise both in and near the protected area, the hunters reap the reward of the protection they opposed vehemently. There are plenty of hunters, both on land and in the water, who are not the selective intellectuals you paint the whole community as. Buba don't know what you talkin' 'bout!

I see this arguement soo much and it is soo untrue. Let's take a larger picture, hunting in general and fishing in general. I'm going to call hunters and fisherfolk sportsmen

Which group, sportsmen or non sportsmen contribute the most money to preserving target species.

Which group spends the most time and money on habitat preservation.

Which group is generally the most knowledgeable about the needs of target species.

Sportsmen want rules and regulations that apply equally across the board. We want them to make sense, and be somewhat fair. We want them based on sound scientific research without political bias or influence.

TwoBit

 

[Hank49]

I see this arguement soo much and it is soo untrue. Let's take a larger picture, hunting in general and fishing in general. I'm going to call hunters and fisherfolk sportsmen

Which group, sportsmen or non sportsmen contribute the most money to preserving target species.

Which group spends the most time and money on habitat preservation.

Which group is generally the most knowledgeable about the needs of target species.

Sportsmen want rules and regulations that apply equally across the board. We want them to make sense, and be somewhat fair. We want them based on sound scientific research without political bias or influence.

TwoBit

I think you and Halemano actually are agreeing here and both seem to point out that regulation is the key.
Unregulated free dive spearing can overfish and devastate reef fish populations. I"ve seen it here in Belize in an area with commercial pole spearos take EVERYTHING. Fortunately they don't affect the deeper fish over the reef and in the pelagics. Scuba spearing, unregulated, could take care of the deeper water fish down deep.
I've been told that there is a lot of controversy in Hawaii regarding Marine Reserves, which in my observation, seem to bring back populations of reef fish by serving as nurseries. Over the last 13 years I watched a small island where the locals cordoned off an area as a nursery in the Philippines, which is known to be heavily overfished, become much more productive because the locals all leave it alone and don't fish there. The whole area has much more fish now than it did 10 years ago.
Halemano makes the point (using Bubba as an example) that I've heard about Hawaii, where the view of some is, "my grandfather fished here, my father....and I'm going to also", and they strongly oppose designated preserves in any of these areas...which is pretty much all of Hawaii's waters.
Enforced regulation and education about the resource is the only way to save it.

 

[matts1w]

...commercial pole spearos take EVERYTHING...

Again, you guys are talking about COMMERCIAL fishing. I don't care about how a fish is taken (nets, long lines, rod and reel, spear guns, powerheads, whatever.) Commercial fishing kills fish stocks- not the rec guys out once a month to get two or three groupers.

Most of us have been arguing RECREATIONAL spearfishing within leagal limits.

By the way, most of the marine reserves in the Caribbean are a joke. Locals fish them for profit all the time....

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

It is more than just "grandpa did it here and dad did it here so I will do it here". That is a big problem in many areas, but there is also an influx of young macho types that see fish being taken but have no mentor. I had a coworker who sat a couple days a week at the snorkel/kayak rental booth of arguably the most popular snorkel/dive site on that side of the Island. He had friends whose fathers were experienced freedivers, but he and his "gang" showed no common sense in most important issues; a bunch of 19 year olds, what do you expect?

One day-off he comes down with his "posse", armed with spears and big knives, to hunt on this tourist reef. He speared a Parrot fish, which was immediately half consumed by one of the grandpa yellow margin eels. This moray was one of the beloved highlights of this site; a spectacular nearly 6 foot, 20 inch in diameter beauty. We knew his daytime hiding holes and tried to show him nearly every dive. The stupid kid didn't want to lose his dinner, even though this portly blob would do good to miss a few meals, so he grabbed his buddies spear and shot the eel. Then he brings both catches up to the rental booth to clean gear and brag about it. I did not have to get him fired; hotel guests did the work for me.

The education of our youth, especially in these Islands, is pathetic. The parents evidently work so much they take no part in rearing these punks, leaving the teachers with the impossible mission of doing both the mentoring and the educating. The speardiving mag highlights the all to few great young divers, with numerous covers of impressive strings and shots, which the ignorant punks see in the checkout line and then jump in the water and try to out do!

Just like SB divers in general, we are the less than 1% who try to learn and get better. IMHO, the vast majority would not care even if they had a clue! I personally am glad the reputation in Hawaii is that scuba spearos better keep it on the down-low or risk being pounded, robbed and/or vandalized. Too bad the same doesn't happen to the trigger happy ignorant macho freedivers, which there is more of than any "conscientious" speardivers want to admit, for fear that further restrictions on their own activity will result.

 

[White Knight]

Someone educate me. What is the percentage of annual total take of seafood worldwide broken down as follows: Commercial fishing, Sports fishing—rod and reel , free diving with a spear gun/pole, and SCUBA diving with a spear gun/pole?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The education you need is how to conduct a debate on a subject. The Op concluded with this question; should spearing on scuba be outlawed? A minor question was whether scuba spearing was sporting. If you want to start a thread about how the oceans would be better off with more teeth in commercial fleet fishing regulations go ahead and start that thread and I will jump on the bandwagon.

Although the OP was not a commercial spearfisher when he did spearfish (now doesn't), all he asked was what is in my previous paragraph, not specifically mentioning recreational spearfishing. There have been a couple posts that mention commercial spearfishing, mine about the history of the Florida Keys Jewfish crash and Hank49 just a few posts ago. Commercial fishing fleets are not the reason there are no Ulua on Ulua Reef off South Maui. Commercial fishing fleets are not the reason there were next to no fish in Shark's Cove off Oahu's North Shore in 2000. In both those cases scuba hunting is/was only responsible for the complete lack of lobster!

Commercial fishing fleets are not the reason Jewfish were completely protected 18 years ago in the Keys. Neither is scuba spearing, but commercial scuba spearing is mentioned as a significant part of the decline by more than one source (if you care to do any research). If the tone of this conversation wasn't so Deliverance, a few more specific reef devastation's might be brought to light. From earlier in the thread, there are States and areas in Australia where scuba spearing IS illegal. Also stated is that the whole EU may have similar restrictions.

Your argument sounds a lot like "well there are bigger problems so until you fix them stay away from my possible local reef or wreck problem." Well a spade is a spade and a problem is a problem. I am not saying that every scuba spearo is doing irreparable harm, but I am saying that scuba spearing must be taken on a case by case basis. Just because you only take a specific fish and eat everything you take does not mean the ecosystem you take from is not being negatively impacted by scuba spearing. A few good apples does not make the bushel not smell rotten!

 

[White Knight]

I asked a question. I was told I could do that at SCUBABOARD? I apologize to everyone who may have been offended by my misjudgment in not starting a new thread as opposed to simply adding on to what I thought was a logical follow-up question to a string of earlier comments. I'll start a new thread as I was so nicely asked to do so with these friendly comments--"The education you need is how to conduct a debate on a subject" and "If you want to start a thread about how the oceans would be better off with more teeth in commercial fleet fishing regulations go ahead and start that thread and I will jump on the bandwagon."

 

[TMHeimer]

just some points....

1. Why does it have to be sporting? It is about harvesting a fish from the ocean to eat. Marathons are sporting. Rugby is sporting. This is fishing.

2. However, it is far more "sporting" than going to the market and buying a fish filet and/or sitting down in some restaurant and ordering a mahi mahi sandwich that was processed on a giant fish factory commercial fishing boat.

3. I am an avid spearfisherman, and I will NOT consume any fish harvested by commercial fishing. Responsible spearfishing kills no turtles, underiszed gamefish, jelly fish, dolphins, tropicals, "junk" fish etc.... We select a legal gamefish and take it. No giant nets or mile long long-lines. I know exactly one fish died for my dinner (the one I am eating), can you say the same about yours?

4. Spearing on scuba in deep murky water such as the Gulf of Mexico is very challenging- more so than freediving crystal clear water twenty feet over a reef.

5. The behavior of fish on frequented scuba spots is different than fish who rarely/never see divers.

6. I invite anyone to join us on our trips off Fort Myers Beach and Naples. Trust me when I say it is not shooting fish in a barrel.

7. If you are worried about the conservation of gamefish then the commercial fishing industry is your enemy, not spearos or recreational fishermen and women.

Safe diving,
Matt

Matt, you hit the nail on the head. I'm not a spear fisherman, but use a "poker" to spear flounders to eat. It's just an "in" thing for divers to criticize you guys. And they know squat about commercial fishing and other problems the oceans face. As a shell collector, you can imagine what I face that I did not face up until say the late '80s.

 

[BlueGil]

I'm not trying to be funny but spearfishing like hunting is not a sport and there is nothing sporting about it. For me it is grocery shopping.You would be amazed at the money I save in a year with a family of five.