Spear gun and pole spear as a self defense weapon?

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our criminals are often willing to use guns. that doesn't translate into meaning that they have any real skills with them or know much about them or how to use them other than where the ammo goes & how to pull a trigger.

many of them enjoy violence, so long as they're the ones delivering it. they generally aren't so fond of being on the receiving end of it & don't like getting shot.
 
It is directed against what I think is an underlying conviction in the anti gun religion
Straw man argumentation.

where they feel that "criminals that are attacking you, are people too"
I'd like to hear your arguments that they're not. Without invoking Godwin, that is.

"they need your understanding and compassion"....
The realistic liberal view is: Either they can be rehabilitated, or they must be locked up indefinitely for the protection of society. In the former case, an enlightened society should abandon any ideas of revenge "justice" and work to turn the former perpetrator into a productive member of society, regardless of primitive conceptions of revenge. In the latter case, and enlightened society should treat the perpetrator with the compassion any human is entitled to, while removing said perpetrator from society and annulling the threat said person is to society.

For some weird reason, countries focusing on that type of justice system have a significantly lower level of recidivism than those who don't. Apparently, the liberal approach seems to work just fine.
 
Straw man argumentation.


I'd like to hear your arguments that they're not. Without invoking Godwin, that is.


The realistic liberal view is: Either they can be rehabilitated, or they must be locked up indefinitely for the protection of society. In the former case, an enlightened society should abandon any ideas of revenge "justice" and work to turn the former perpetrator into a productive member of society, regardless of primitive conceptions of revenge. In the latter case, and enlightened society should treat the perpetrator with the compassion any human is entitled to, while removing said perpetrator from society and annulling the threat said person is to society.

For some weird reason, countries focusing on that type of justice system has a significantly lower level of recidivism than those who don't. Apparently, the liberal approach seems to work just fine.

I think this idea that rehabilitation is possible, is limited a great deal by the personality formation in the first 6 years of a child's life. Maybe the damage done to criminals in the 1st 6 years of their life, will mean an only partially damaged personality ( coping mechanisms etc.....what you need when you don't get what you want) for 10 or 15% of the criminal population....ie, maybe very good Psychologists "could fix" the coping mechanisms of 10 to 15% of a criminal population....
The problem here, is that we don't have many of these really good psychologists, and the small number of good ones, are going to want to work with wealthy people to have a better lifestyle themselves...the criminal justice system would not be their first pick for a lifetime career...
And, bigger problem...why should society be forced to pay for the life costs and harboring of this prison popuation--for life....when this group has already decided it was ok for it to be a predator upon the general population? I prefer the dumping the 85% that can't be fixed, to an island concept, a place they cant escape from, and where they will now need to make their own way, and can prey upon each other.
This would be for the habitual criminals, the ones even the liberals don't believe we can "fix".
 
If you think about refering to cross bow a spear gun is on the same lines as this type of weapon. It is also something that I ORIGINALLY had asked to consider because it was already an item that some divers already haqve and are comfortable and experienced in using. It is more practical because I have never even used a CROSS BOW, I doubt many other divers have one in their home either.

The purpose of the post was not to find other means of protection but to look at what you have since you are diver/ free diver and use that resource to help in another area. In this case your experience with a weapon like the spear gun does play into account as being lethal.

Can you guys see this as an important factor or do you really think an intruder could not be put down with a spear gun?

Know I am the one that's laughing.

From memory: About a year ago (maybe 2?) here on the Big Island, one adult male shot another in anger with a speargun, aiming for center mass, nearly point blank range, during a confrontation. The spear shaft struck the victim just to the side of the sternum, and lodged with the tip and about 1/2 of the spear protruding from the victim's back. The shooting occurred at night in the victim's backyard, as he had some sort of argument with a "tenant" who lived in a trailer on their property.

He was able to walk back to his house, call for his father, sit down and wait together for the ambulance to arrive. The father said he could feel the spear pulsating, since it was lodged against his son's heart.

So, will a speargun, even a large one, "put down" a determined intruder? Maybe if you "stone" him :wink:. Otherwise you are putting a fairly small hole in the intruders body, probably through-and-through. Like being "run through" with a fencing sword. If nothing "vital" is stuck, you might have just really pissed off the intruder. If the intruder is armed, he may shoot you after contemplating the spear shaft protruding from his body. Then go to the E.R. and have it removed.

On the other hand, psychologically, a speargun pointed at me would probably scare the bejeezus out of me, more than a handgun would, even though "intellectually" I know the handgun is far more lethal. Just like a shot gun is more frightening and a better deterrent in many cases than a handgun.... it just evokes fear.

Hopefully this discussion will always be "theoretical" for all of us.

Best wishes.
 
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From memory: About a year ago (maybe 2?) here on the Big Island, one adult male shot another in anger with a speargun, aiming for center mass, nearly point blank range, during a confrontation. The spear shaft struck the victim just to the side of the sternum, and lodged with the tip and about 1/2 of the spear protruding from the victim's back. The shooting occurred at night in the victim's backyard, as he had some sort of argument with a "tenant" who lived in a trailer on their property.

He was able to walk back to his house, call for his father, and wait for the ambulance to arrive.

So, will a speargun, even a large one, "put down" a determined intruder? Only if you "stone" him. You are putting a small hole, probably through-and-through. If nothing "vital" is stuck, you might have simply really pissed off the intruder.

On the other hand, psychologically, a speargun pointed at me would probably scare the bejeezus out of me, more than a handgun would, even though "intellectually" I know the handgun is far more lethal. Just like a shot gun is more frightening and a better deterrent in many cases than a handgun.... it just evokes fear.

Hopefully this discussion will always be "theoretical" for all of us.

Best wishes.

This is actually also the arguement for powerheads...back in the 80's, when I was big into spearfishing, even a huge gun like my 60 inch double barrel Ultimate gun, would not necessARILY stop a big fish....more times than not, there was a fight on your hands...as we got to diving the 165 foot stuff, and then the deeper stuff in the early nineties, that "fight" with the fish was becoming a problem, because after your shot, you still had to do deco...maybe up to an hour...and if the fish fought with you too much, you'd have the bullsharks in, they'd be pissed, and demanding. And you would need to deal with them for the entire deco....

So Pat Frain comes up with these diposable, 9mm powerheads....slide one on in an instant, the spear point becomes the firing pin, the 9 mm round goes off anywhere in the head or near it, or the spine or near it, and the fish is in la la land....it is dead. Pat used to say it was far more "Humane" than shooting with a spear, and having the fish suffer for a long time.
The 9mm was great for up to about 80 pound fish....and then somewhere around here, you would want to move up to Pat's larger rounds, with even mo0re concussion..like the 223, or the 12 guage, or the monster load, the 444 marlin....

So there is no comparing the concussion effects of the 9 mm or larger rounds with even a big spear.....
On the other hand, this began in a discussion where the speargun was the only "weapon of opportunity" , in a Bruce Lee kind of sense....If you have an enemy coming at you with a deadly intent, you make the best use of the items around you that could be used as weapons....The speargun would be much better than your begging the bad men, not to hurt your wife or children.
 
I have a powerhead, a Ray Odor slip on in 30-06. I've carried it a lot & used it not at all. my purpose for it is a last ditch shark defense but so far I've been able to deal with the sharks without having to use it. But I do know others who have had worse encounters.
 
I haven't listened to ELP for decades. It's a shame.
Now I have.

"ELP", "Tarkus" and "Trilogy". Blessed be YouTube, and I'm having some serious flashbacks here...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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