spare air

[Berdman]

I think I may go with a 30 because its not much more then a 19 not sure how big it will be so I might go smaller. I will take the primary off the set of regulators I have and use the octo (its funny I was going to sell them to pay for this haha...) and I see scubatoys has a mini pressure gauge for like 55 bucks.


Yeah I could do a CESA but what if I am tangled in something and don’t have that extra air? And I never said I would not go deeper then 20 ft, the quarries around here are not really clear past 25 ft. but if I ever dive in clearer water it might be helpful.

One thing I always read on here is to have redundancy, now are you implying it doesn’t mater in my situation? When I had my OW class I noticed that when I wanted to get my buddies attention I had to kick like hell just to catch up to him, and that was just when he was even by me and not going up and down because he couldn’t control his/their buoyancy. A CESA should be able to be done deeper then 20ft so are you saying that I just shouldn’t get one?


I come here to ask questions because I dont have any buddies to ask (or friends for that matter) if I am always going to be criticized for the questions I ask then I wont even bother asking them and I will find/learn the answers the "hard" way.

Thanks for everyone that did help

 

[Berdman]

Im a "newbie" and I like buying gear maybe I want to dive with 50 pony’s, I just want to make sure all the pony’s work when I need them. If I bought 50 spareairs and only 5 worked what if it was the last 5 I check and by that time I might be out of air.

I appreciate everyone’s concern, but please don’t let the concern fade the questions at hand. If that happens I will end up having finding the answers out on my own.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

My buddy carries a spare air with him and it gives him some reassuarance that he has a second air source (Actually a 3rd if you count me). He has breathed off of it a depth and it didn't last long. I would go for the pony or doubles etc...

 

[Trickie Dickie 99]

Berdman, take it from someone who used to own a spare air (for 3 years) and recently switched to a 19 cu ft sling pony: a pony is way better, especially if diving solo.
I have a couple of issues with the spare air (not in order of importance):
1. I tested it at depth - It breathes very wet and not well at all below 30ft (definitely not good if you're under stress and breathe heavily).
2. If you go deeper than 60ft, it almost certainly won't allow you to make a safe ascent + safety stop.
3. Although mine didn't leak, I've heard many do.
I know, having a spare air is better than nothing, but if you're comparing spare air and pony, the pony is realy the way to go and cost wise, pony is close (unless you're assembling top-of-the-line Ti pony reg setup). I agree with above poster, sling is more economical (and IMHO safer for me - I can see the gauge).
I use my old reg, screw-in mini SPG and Dive rite pony sling.
As for size of tank, I'm reading on a chart I downloaded from a site called scubanaked a while ago: for up to 66ft depth get a 13 cu ft; for up to 99ft get a 19 cu ft and for up to 132 ft get a 30 cu ft.
Everyone makes their own decision, if you choose to solo dive, it's your perogative. If you are a friend of mine, I'd recommend that you get training at least to Rescue (it teaches situation assessment, accident prevention, self-rescue etc) before doing so.
What part of Wis do you dive? I used to dive Lakes Mendota and Monona a lot while at UW-Madison. Also went to Lake Wazee once a while.
Dive safely.

I'd concur with everything EvaL has to say on this. I looked (and that's all I did) at the infamous SpareAir about 10 yrs ago and came to the conclusion that it is a waste of time. 3 cu ft? Working moderately hard at the surface, you can put away 1 cu ft per minute; now go to say 15-20M under stress and you are going to increase that usage maybe 4 fold. It equates to a minute or two of air on the surface,. maybe less than a minute at any sort of depth. My LDS bloke also tells me that the breg is very tricky to service too. IMHO, they'd be maybe ok for a surfer surfing biiiig waves (say tow-in surfing) where if he gets axed, he maybe swirling around for a minute or so, but that's all.

I've been using a pony for a couple of years now, still probably the only one in my club who does so.

I use a 30cf (4L WC) aluminium and I sling it off my BC. I previously used to hang it off two D-rings but found that to be a PITA. As it's almost neutral in the water, I find jusy hanging it off one D-ring works fine.

This is the setup:

and this is how it looks in the water, when slung:

Looks as though it might get in the way, but I can assure you it doesn't. This is just the way I do it though, others, including you may/will find other ways which work for them.

I did use a "pony tamer" to clamp it to my main cylindere but didn't like the extra weight involved, being hung off my already weighty 16KG 15L steel single. Side slinging also means that I can pass it over to my buddy if he is OOA and being Ally, it won't affect my buoyancy too much if I do this.

The reg is an Aqualung Calypso, which cost me $90 off a bloke in the US via ebay. The slinging rig was home made and cost me maybe $AU30. ($US24)

As for your discomfort at depths exceeding 20ft (which is my normal decostop +/- 3 feet), I have to ask you, have you actually done any recognised formal training? The most basic OW qualifications from any agency you care to mention should train you to 60ft/18m. The sort of depths you are speaking of are basically for snorkelling.

 

[Trickie Dickie 99]

I think I may go with a 30 because its not much more then a 19 not sure how big it will be so I might go smaller. I will take the primary off the set of regulators I have and use the octo (its funny I was going to sell them to pay for this haha...) and I see scubatoys has a mini pressure gauge for like 55 bucks.


Yeah I could do a CESA but what if I am tangled in something and don’t have that extra air? And I never said I would not go deeper then 20 ft, the quarries around here are not really clear past 25 ft. but if I ever dive in clearer water it might be helpful.

One thing I always read on here is to have redundancy, now are you implying it doesn’t mater in my situation? When I had my OW class I noticed that when I wanted to get my buddies attention I had to kick like hell just to catch up to him, and that was just when he was even by me and not going up and down because he couldn’t control his/their buoyancy. A CESA should be able to be done deeper then 20ft so are you saying that I just shouldn’t get one?


I come here to ask questions because I dont have any buddies to ask (or friends for that matter) if I am always going to be criticized for the questions I ask then I wont even bother asking them and I will find/learn the answers the "hard" way.

Thanks for everyone that did help

FWIW, I did a CESA from 29M (+/- 100ft) in Hodge Close, a slate quarry in the UK. This was 25 yrs and I was too young and too dumb to be too worried by this at the time. It worked fine though, just like the dive manual and the laws of physics said it would

As for the perils of OOA and buddy separation, you are quite right, that's why a pony is a damned good idea for all single-cylinder divers. The visibility in my part of the world is usually in the region of 30-60ft, sometimes 100ft, so visual separation is rarely an issue but spatial separation, when it all goes to $hit could well be.

Also, take a look at mortality statistics which frequently involve two divers dying when only one runs out of air. An assisted ascent is bloody tricky when one diver is panicking and has insufficient air to be able to add to their bcd. How much easier if the OOA diver simply swaps to their AAS (pony) signals "OOA-Surface!!" and both make an orderly ascent, with the buddy there to render assistance (and more air) if necessary.

I had a very bad experience several years ago on a charter dive boat off Cairns when the O-ring blew on my cylinder valve, at 25m, emptying my main air supply in mopments. I raced over to my buddy-for-the-day, signalled OOA (very hurriedly) and grabbed his occie. This bloke then spent the next minute or two trying to beat me off, in a blind panic. In the end, I spat out the pony and did another CESA from about 15m. His excuse back in the boat? Apparently my "manners" were poor. I should have signalled OOA, then waited for him to pass me the occie.

After that, I vowed not to rely for AAS on a buddy again.

On the other hand, they are nice to have around; simple intervention by a buddy can prevent a minor difficulty morphing into a major emergency. One prime example that you've mentioned is entanglement. Doesn't matter how long your pony lasts, if you're stuck, you're stuck, it may well be that your buddy is the only one who can get you out.

 

[paulwlee]

Although I don't do it any more, a few years back I used to solo dive every now and then.
I did some calculations on what I would need for a redundant air source, and came up with 19cf as a minimum for any dives where a CESA gets uncomfortable, say 50~100ft.
19cf is the minimum size that works for slinging. 13cf or 6cf has to be mounted using a bracket. 30cf is a bit of a jump in size/weight.
So unless you are diving in excess of 100ft, 19cf is probably your best choice. As for how to rig it, do something like these :
http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/stagebottle_rigging.html
http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/reg_config_stages.html

You can use the small pony gauge instead, and an octo hose instead of the 40" hose.

BTW, if you feel like you need a spare air for diving 25ft, I suggest you do a little bit of freediving (breathhold diving). It will get you a lot more comfortable in the water and improve your water skills in general.

 

[in_cavediver]

I did a search the other day I must of spelt it wrong..... I already have solo dived, thanks for caring though :14:

My only concern regarding your desire to solo dive is lack of expierence. I personally have no problems with divers who want to solo. Its just when a diver just starts out, they literally don't know what they don't know. Everything is still new and procedures are still new. Buoyancy may be an issue etc. All of this new stuff doesn't lend itself well to effective underwater problem solving.

 

[DarthWader]

I guess I should have clarified the depth I would be diving at sorry...... Darthwader you feel up to 45 degree water?

Heck berdman, I'm from Escanaba, I shave in 45 degree water!
I'm sticking inside the 30' range myself; I figure this summer will be dedicated to acquiring all my gear and getting used to it and besides, there's plenty for a n00b to see at 30' around here.

 

[Colliam7]

I do have another set of regulators laying in front of me, would it be cheaper and better to get a 19 or similar and a tank mount?

I will stay completely out of the 'should you', 'should you not' arm of this thread. In a separate (very long-running) thread on 'most regretted' equipment purchases, a SpareAir was an often cited item. That is not a judgement, merely exposition of the experiences of a number of other SB folks. 'Small pony bottles' (less than 19cf) was another often regretted purchase. My opinion, FWIW, is to go with a pony. And, I would consider going with a AL40 pony, simply for future versatility (even resale value if you decide to move in other directions). I dive one slung under my left arm - hardly even notice it in the water. I feel more comfortable with it at 120' than I would with a 19cf.

 

[Berdman]

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