Spare Air

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James Goddard:
What I am saying is that by definition, a rec diver can surface at any point for any reason. Do you disagree, if so we should expand this to what is a rec diver.

If you can end a dive at any time, you do not NEED to know your SAC rate.

So, as we heard, knowing how to calculate a SAC rate is outside of the realm of recreational diving. So doing a Bingo calculation (what y'all call RockBottom<G>) must be way out of the realm of recreational diving.
 
erparamedic:
Good grief, thalassamania....

Don't CRUCIFY Trucker Girl for giving her opinion and/or uses of spare air. You've ripped her apart for no reason. She gives valid reasons for having one. I bet at one point or another... in your 3000+ dive history, you've carried one too... and if you haven't, I'd bet you've probably thought about carrying one.

Really... you gave some very rude responses to her.

I agree, thalassamania, you were rather pompass in your replies to Trucker Girl. You have a right to your opinion, but you don't have to talk down to her and you do have to realize that other people might have valid opposing opinions.
 
TheRedHead:
trucker girl, I think everyone understands the anxiety of a newish diver. We've all been in the same place and felt the same way. A few dives after certification, I was in Belize on a 70 ft dive and was watching my SPG go down. My buddy and I swam up to the DM and made the "boat" signal and he just looked at us like he didn't understand. Then we gave him a thumbs up and he just returned an ok sign. Finally we found the anchorline to boat on our own and I had only 300 psi when I returned to the boat. I was thinking Spare Air too at that point.

The pont everyone is trying to make is that Spare Air may not save your life on a deep dive and the company insinuates that it is a sure thing.

I don't have anxiety and I've been diving for a few years now- I don't have the 200+ dives you have, but I'm working on it... I don't think the Spare Air is a sure bet to save my life nor do I plan to rely on it. Like I've said (and I've been quoting someone else but I can't recall who- but he said it well) I HOPE IT'S THE WORST MONEY I EVER SPENT! That's kind of the point. If you have one of those "Spare Air saved my life" stories... you did something really, really wrong.

This is not a reply to Red Head- just my general comments:
I guess I don't see why it's anyone's business if I have an extra thing on my person- I posted because the post in front of mine asked for arguments FOR it. If my argument wasn't good enough for you, that's fine with me . If someone brags about getting extra bottom time because they have a Spare Air, that's just plain stupid. And a red flag signal to NOT dive with that person. I think I've said very clearly that I have it and DON'T want to ever use it. I have that orange inflatable thing that you can blow up to help the boat see you, too- whatever it's called- and I've never so much as unrolled it...

I have a whistle that's never been blown (okay, once, just for fun- and not at a dive site).

Hey- El Orans... back at ya!
:jump013: :jump013: :jump013: :jump013: :jump013: :jump013: :jump013: :jump013:
 
DivingDoc:
I agree, thalassamania, you were rather pompass in your replies to Trucker Girl. You have a right to your opinion, but you don't have to talk down to her and you do have to realize that other people might have valid opposing opinions.

Doc, thanks for that. Thalassamania has made it clear that it was not his intention to come off that way and apologized to me if he did come off that way. I think it's hard to tell what someone really means when it's posted on a board sometimes- you can't hear the tone in their voice, read body language... you're going on written words only.

I appreciate you making the point that opinions are opinions... and you know how the saying goes...

I knew that by posting what I did I was sticking my neck out from under the shell...
 
trucker girl:
I don't have anxiety and I've been diving for a few years now- I don't have the 200+ dives you have, but I'm working on it...

Sorry, but you don't have a dive profile and your explanation made me think you are a new diver:

trucker girl:
I don't plan on diving to the depths you're talking about- 130 or even close. When I'm diving at 20 feet in the quarry, I have my gauges in my hand (also works to keep it from floating around and hitting stuff) and I check it often. Very often. Maybe too often- but is there any such thing as too often?

Your guage should never float off and hit something if it is clipped off. 20 feet? I can only assume you are exaggerating....
 
TheRedHead:
Sorry, but you don't have a dive profile and your explanation made me think you are a new diver:

Yeah- the whole "edit dive profile" thing ain't working right now... And I am a "newish" diver. I should be right at 50 dives when I fly out to Hawaii- and I'm always amazed at how much I DON'T know- it seems every time I dive with someone new I learn new stuff. And every time I dive with my instructor, he teaches me something new (even though I'm not in class...). I still haven't figured out how to blow bubble rings, though.

erparamedic and I are going to "learn" to play Uno under water- that should definitely be a learning experience!

TheRedHead:
Your guage should never float off and hit something if it is clipped off. 20 feet? I can only assume you are exaggerating....

I don't keep mine clipped- I have a hard time locating it if I do, so I just mainly hold it. I'm not doing anything with my hands anyway. My BC is pretty old and it only has a few places to clip things so it's just easier for me this way.

And the thermocline is at about 25 so it gets cold down there. My main buddy likes to stay above it so I follow suit. I blame him even though I go looking for the thermocline after a few minutes below it (I'm a wimp :)) I did 3 dives a few weeks ago and my deepest depth was 22. I was toasty warm in my 7 mil :). I do check my gauges often- the air, yes, but also the depth gauge to practice buoyancy. Of course, if your feet are cold and your head is hot- you're right at the thermocline and you can "pretend" to be very good at keeping in one spot without looking!

OFF TOPIC! Sorry about that- can we get back to arguing about Spare Air now?
 
trucker girl:
Of course, if your feet are cold and your head is hot- you're right at the thermocline...

OFF TOPIC! Sorry about that- can we get back to arguing about Spare Air now?

Nope. Now we have to discuss trim.
 
teknitroxdiver:
A spare air may help you a bit. But let's look at the math (always like proving stuff with numbers...).

You can get a plane-jane 3cf Spare Air for $180. (40 seconds of air) What could you do with $180?

Sling bottle: $70 for a used AL40, $100 for a used reg, $10 for hardware, and you got 40 cf of backup air. (9 minutes at 132 feet)

A spare air may be better than no air, but if you add up the cost you can get a lot more for the same.

I personally am not concerned with the comparable cost. I have BOTH a 3 cu ft Spare Air AND a 13 cu ft pony, along with an Atomic Z1 to put on the pony and a button gauge for it. But for shallow dives < 60 feet, I find it easier to use the Spare Air. It's alot less fussing around between tanks and you are carrying less weight when you are trying to get up the ladder -- a significant consideration for a middle-aged lady who has had a partial knee replacement, even though I do work out with weights and cardio. I can swim nearly the length of a 25 meter pool underwater on one breath, so I figure I could make an emergency ascent from 60 feet even without a spare air. Back in the 60's, my Dad had an out of air situation when he came to the end of his air, went to flip his J-valve and found it was already flipped. He made an emergency ascent breathing out the whole way up from 90 feet!

For sure, last time I did Punta Sur/ Devil's throat in Coz (where, for those of you who don't know, you go in the 30' coral tunnel at 80 fsw and come out at 130' fsw), I used my pony. There would have been no way I could have breathed from my buddy's alternate unless he had a 7' hose like the DIR people use, but it would have been easy to get to my pony bottle reg.

I am not a tech diver. I dive Nitrox and recreational limits, and watch my computer, staying on the conservative side of it -- so there is never a question of missing a deco obligation -- just of missing a safety stop, which is not essential -- just for extra safety.

The problem I am trying to work out is this: what depth limit should I set for myself for using the Spare Air as opposed to my pony? Of course, most of my diving trips have 2 morning dives each day (and maybe an afternoon or a night dive later -- both at the shallower depth)-- the first is usually 80-100 feet and the second 50-60 feet. It's much easier to have the same set-up for both dives, and yet my above argument would suggest I use my pony for dive 1 and my spare air for dive 2. That pony set-up is so darned inconvenient and heavy though -- I really hate it.

BTW, I am going to Little Caymen in October -- does anyone know what the usual depths are for dives there? I guess it's wall dving, so it's whatever you plan, right? Just trying to decide whether to bring my pony and extra reg. along.
 
I'm not sure why the pony setup would be heavy with such a small pony. If you use the slung pony method, you can have it passed down to you by the crew and hand it up before boarding the boat. I don't find it uncomfortable in the least, even with a 40 cu ft. bottle. It is floating on my left side and in no way interferes with trim or propulsion. You can even take it through Devil's Throat, which BTW, is much larger thanks to Wilma.
 
Little Cayman Bloody Bay wall edge is 60 to 90 depending on site, shallows up from that - you can spend a great dive at 50 feet or so at most of the sites I was on.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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