Spare Air

[lamont]

The use cases for a spare air are still highly narrow, somewhat implausible and are largely theoretical. If you screw up, if your buddy is close but not quite close enough, if you can reach them, if they can solve your problem in time, etc... And if you don't reach them or they can't solve the issue fast enough, then you run out of gas twice. A pony or doubles can solve a much broader set of problems at depth and lets you get out of the issue without having to bail directly to the surface.

 

[trucker girl]

The use cases for a spare air are still highly narrow, somewhat implausible and are largely theoretical.

Much like the statistics of 95% and small minorities?
I would like to know what sources give these statistics or are these opinion? I don't want to argue- I actually would like to know if there are any actual statistics out there or any studies on this.

 

[lamont]

While I absolutely agree that the testimonials you guys have posted from Spare Air (though I have not checked out the site myself to verify them) are ridiculous and cross the border into promoting incompetence...

These statistics you keep giving... 95% of divers won't deploy it correctly etc... where are you getting these? Are these off the top (95%) of you head? I am serious here- not trying to be a smart ***... has there been any sort of study done- though I don't see how you could really do a study like this and have any sort of accurate results unless it was very large.

It seems to me that 95% of statistics are made up on the spot 95% of the time.

Entirely made up on the spot. Based on experience, though, in classes that I've taken where with simple tasks dive teams that were stressed made mistakes that tended to snowball and wind up badly, and that simple tasks became very difficult. And these were divers that were consistantly diving 2+ times a week and were otherwise very experienced. Anyone who has been through GUE's tech1/cave1 class or equivalent training will likewise be very skeptical of the average recreational diver to be able to consistently deploy any piece of equipment under stress.

Has anyone ever died while using a Spare Air? I won't be surprised to find the answer to be yes... but are you basing you statements on facts?

And if they died while using the Spare Air... was Spare Air at fault?

I do know of one fatality that a spare air didn't prevent. I can't possibly know if overconfidence due to the spare air led to the fatality (either you find this concept plausible or you don't, there's no way to prove it either way -- overconfidence due to equipment isn't measurable).

To lump all divers who intent to sport a S.A. together into one big group of overconfident duds seems fairly condescending IMO. Maybe "95%" of them ARE overconfident duds... maybe 15% of them are and the rest of the 85% of Spare Air sportin' divers are actually prudent.

No, really its consistent. Most every diver is far worse at the sport than they think. I'm better than a lot because I've been shown how bad I sucked before and I've worked on problems, but I'm far from perfect.

I tested mine today at 30 feet (sorry- it was 45 degrees at 54 feet and I'm not interested in freezing my butt when I test it) and got right at 30 breaths out of it.

As Rev. Blade pointed out... if I EVER deploy it for anything OTHER than a test then someone screwed up big time... most likely ME. So can I be allowed into the 5% of divers who aren't overconfidend duds now?

Nope. Take RecTriox or Tech1 and find out how overconfident you really are.

 

[ItsBruce]

I'm apt to agree with the 95% figure. I have no hard data, just experience with catastrophic gear failures and whether diving or elsewhere, the 95% figure seems reasonable.

Without doubt, a pony is better at depth. When not at depth, one can do a CESA. But, I still maintain that when relatively shallow the SA is still nice to have as it may avoid the CESA. Now, if one is apt to use a pony on a shallow dive, that is better than an SA. But, as I've said, I'm not apt to carry a pony on a shallow dive with a reliable buddy.

Bottom line: Know your and your equipment's limitations.

 

[Cacia]

he he---ya'll have been in here for three days now, eh?

I think if spare air helps in a heli, it seems it COULD help on a dive. Bruce, maybe you should keep it in your glove box for Marina del Rey bridges, for when the viaduct flash floods?

 

[OE2X]

Can someone explain to me how its not a good idea to have more air, even if its only 3 CF, when you dont have any?

yes you always plan not to get in a no gas situation and to have backups and buddies, but sometimes a diver gets there, plan or not.

sorry but this line of thinking makes no sense to me.

Actually every dive I do - I plan on getting into an OOA situation from my max depth to the surface. I will say that in all the years of diving I've done, I have yet to have a true OOA. I have drilled them down to 120' though. This is why all the people I dive with know what their rock bottom is on any dive we do.

Here is another scenario: You are on air - not 30/30 at 120' and you are narked out of your gord. The wall drops below you to 400'. You find yourself OOA and no buddy of circumstance. "Lets see what pocket did I put that Spare Air in?" You finally find the zipper with your wetsuit gloves and fumble around for your spare air. Your SAC has just gone from your normal .5 to a paniced 1.0 . Well in your narked state of mind you drop the canister and like the Titanic it heads down into the dark abyss. Now you are really up a creek except you are a long way from the surface. What do you do now?

My choice would be to get to my buddy and do an air share as soon as I went OOA. Since we would have calculated each rock bottom for our tanks and our buddy then we would have plenty of gas to make it to the surface.

So if you don't plan on using something then why bring it? I dive with a buddy because I figure on every dive I will need his or her back gas to get me to the surface or at the very least our deco stop. If I'm doing dives where I won't be going into into deco - then guess what - I don't bring along a deco bottle.

 

[trucker girl]

Nope. Take RecTriox or Tech1 and find out how overconfident you really are.

So if I didn't want to carry my SA I wouldn't be overconfident? Or are you saying ALL divers are overconfident? I would agree that many are overconfident. But I don't think the SA thing is the ultimate litmus test for an overconfident diver.

I don't know about 95%. I would think it's more like 70%... but, then, I dive quarries. And people who dive quarries tend to be very into diving (vs. vacation divers who want the once-a-year warm, happy dive). Perhaps 95% of vacation divers are pretty clueless... I wouldn't know.

 

[TheRedHead]

So if I didn't want to carry my SA I wouldn't be overconfident? Or are you saying ALL divers are overconfident? I would agree that many are overconfident. But I don't think the SA thing is the ultimate litmus test for an overconfident diver.

I don't think that is what he means. It is oveconfidence about how well you will react in an emergency situation because most divers don't encounter them. When you take a class where you're stressed - your instructor takes your buddy's mask and then winds you up in the line from your reel - you realize very quickly that it takes twice or three times as long as you thought it would to solve the problem. Spare air may not give you the time you need to solve the problem.

 

[Bigcape]

Spair Air is like taking a B.B gun into battle will it work even just a little.....yes. Will it do the job? ______

 

[Thalassamania]

Spare air provides just enough gas for a trained person to get out of an inverted copter that's not yet sunk. Like everything else, that particular piece of business takes training and practice. That was years ago. Looks like the marines have gone to pony bottles: