Spare Air

[redacted]

Nobby and everyone else...
Divers who use a "sparedeath" seem to disregard limits since they have their bail-out attached to their waist. I used to dive with a pony for YEARS and all it ever did was to complicate my diving. It had the same air in it when I first filled it as when I finally sold it, because I truly used it as a bail out. However, most pony/spareair divers use this extra air to "push the limits" rather than a true redundant system.
QUOTE]

Do you actually have any data (statistical facts) on how most divers use a spare air and/or a pony bottle?

 

[RIDIVER501]

How about for unsticking your anchor?

No I do not recommend it for unsticking your anchor.
I do not recommend it for any "diving" situation.
I recommend it for the 2 situations I stated before. Pilot who have ditched over water, and emergency egress from a burning space. 3.0 cu foot of air isn't enough air to safely do anything dive related IMO. If it were we wouldn't be teaching the rule of thirds.
If I am supposed to save roughly 1000psi of an 80 cuft tank that is roughly 26 and change cuft for an emergency 3.0 cuft is a drop in the bucket

 

[RIDIVER501]

Divers who use a "sparedeath" seem to disregard limits since they have their bail-out attached to their waist. I used to dive with a pony for YEARS and all it ever did was to complicate my diving. It had the same air in it when I first filled it as when I finally sold it, because I truly used it as a bail out. However, most pony/spareair divers use this extra air to "push the limits" rather than a true redundant system.

I have to agree with awap, I do not believe that this is a true statement. I dive the U-853 off block Island a lot as a DM and while doing dives where a Pony is recommended and used it is used as a redundant system for safety sake and not as an intentional extention of air supply so that limits can be pushed.

 

[Lil' Irish Temper]

http://www.spareair.com/product/storyby.htm#savedmylife

Some testimonies for you.

“I thought I had enough air when beginning ascent, but more time passed than expected. The SPARE AIR saved my day and bacon!”

Ron Milam, Missoula MT Put himself in a OOA situation

“Being an instructor I have a sense of security because I know I have my Spare Air. I do not enter the water without it. It gives you the control to make that ascent. My dive masters use it, I use it, my students use it. I feel comfortable with the fact that it’s always there."

Dave Martinache, Lakewood, CO Giving others a false sense of security

“Mr. Williamson, your product prevented a difficult situation from becoming a tragedy and I wish to extend my heartfelt thanks. The convenience and reliability of the Spare Air has indeed proven itself to me and I commend you for it.”

Richard Theiss, Arcadia, CA Unknown Reason

“I would probably have been able to get free without the Spare Air but I’m glad I didn’t have to find out.”

Jeff Hampsten, H&H Dive & Travel, Pocatello, ID Unknown Reason

“This is to inform you that your SPARE AIR has saved another one. At 12 ft. I probably could have surfaced without any breathing air but the possession of an emergency backup kept me from panic. The bottom line is that I got my investment back in a few precarious minutes. So many thanks to you and your company."

Ernie Miller, Baton Rouge, LA Unknown Reason

“At about 80 feet my regulator started breathing very hard. I switched to my Spare Air and continued my accent uneventfully. You can rest assured I will never dive without this piece of equipment – I consider it a must!”

Richard Bass Unknown Reason Equipment?

“While diving in Aruba, I was given a newly serviced tank. Someone had used the wrong size o-ring for the valve. The result was that after a few minutes, and at 95', the O-ring blew, emptying my tank in seconds. The young lady that I was asked by the local school to supervise did not have an Octopus and was on her third dive! So I had to rely entirely upon my SPARE AIR.“

Frits A. Louw, Netherlands Should have been caught in safety check

"I apparently had some type of malfunction in my equipment and it required me to use the SPARE AIR in an emergency ascent. To this day I do not know what happened, but I believe strongly in the SPARE AIR. I have carried a SPARE AIR with me as standard equipment for two years, but this is the first time I have had to use it in an emergency situation. If I had an Octopus only, I've often wondered what would have happened. When you have only a few seconds time to react because of an out-of-air situation, no questions asked, you should have a SPARE AIR within reach so you don't have to think twice about what you should do.”

Joyce Ripley, Yuba City, CA Unknown Reason Equipment?

“I had just begun to head for the surface and my dive computer was signaling for me to slow my descent. Right then I felt myself take my last breathe of air from the tank. It was empty, I was at 75 feet, and my dive buddy was nowhere to be seen. I grabbed my Spare Air and took the sweetest breath of air in 36 years. By the time I got to the surface, that Spare Air was empty and I am convinced that I couldn’t have made it up without the edge your product gave me.“

David F., New York Put himself in a OOA situation

“I would like to thank you and your wonderful device that you have created. If it were not so, I could not have written you this letter.”

Steve Martell, Vancouver, BC Unknown Reason

“I went out on the boat without checking the rental tank. I didn’t have a full tank of air and ended up at 60 ft. without air. I gave my dive buddy the out of air sign, he didn’t know what it was and he didn’t have an octopus either. So I did what any safety-oriented diver would do. I just reached down on my BC and got out my Spare Air and made a safe ascent. Thank you Spare Air!”

Arthur Cleve Barnes, PADI Divemaster Put himself in a OOA situation and a Divemaster no-less

“This Spare Air system saved my life. I have logged over 9000 dives, and I never experienced a complete failure of my gauge system before. The Spare Air system gave me enough air to swim over to my buddy and locate, secure, and breathe from his alternate air source second stage. I hope that I never again have another complete failure of my life support system while diving, but it’s good to know that my Spare Air unit is always there for me when I need it!”

Capt. Bruce Besser, PADI Master Instructor, Unknown Reason Equipment?

“Your system might not give a diver the exact same ease of breathing as a two stage regulator, but at 80 feet, who’s complaining. My regulator is presently in the shop being checked. Even before I purchased Spare Air I recognized it as a life saving device far more flexible than having a spare regulator on your tank. My humble thanks to all the people that have brought the Spare Air system to the divers of the world.”

John Tuckish, Washington DC Has the guy even used one?

“I have to share my experience with you. I am a newly certified diver. I went to Cozumel with friends; on my 8th dive I had a tank failure at about 28 ft. No air and my dive buddy was not paying attention to me. So I ditched weights, pulled out Spare Air and made an easy ascent to the surface. All my dive buddies plan on getting Spare Air’s prior to our next trip.”

Rob Silverman, MD, Fayetteville, NY Tank failure? I don't think so... OOA

Someone else can take over... I think I'm seeing people putting themselves in OOA situations

 

[DaFireMedic]

Divers who use a "sparedeath" seem to disregard limits since they have their bail-out attached to their waist.

How does this mean that someone is disregarding limts?

It had the same air in it when I first filled it as when I finally sold it, because I truly used it as a bail out.

Exactly what I would use one for. It makes sense.

However, most pony/spareair divers use this extra air to "push the limits" rather than a true redundant system.

This is the biggest problem that I have with the arguments against using a redundant air source. Why should I choose or dismiss a piece of equipment based on the knowledge that some other people may use it in an unsafe manner or a use for which it is clearly not intended? If that was the case, I wouldn't own a chainsaw, a hammer, or a dive knife for that matter.



There are 3 rules that I have come to live by in my 14 years of emergency work, including many operations in extremely hazardous environments:

“Never say never”:
You can greatly reduce the risk of bad things happening through training and planning, but you cannot completely eliminate the unexpected. Those who say that they will never have an out of air emergency because they are well trained/experienced or good at planning are asking for trouble. Just because it has not happened to you yet, does not mean that it never will. Always plan for the worst, to lessen the chance that a problem at depth will become a fatal one. As a confined space rescue instructor, I will never make entry into a low oxygen or toxic environment without my bail out bottle. It is not a crutch, but a safety tool in the event of a catastrophic failure of my main system.

“It ain’t over till its over”:
If I ever find myself in an OOA situation underwater, I will use every tool that I have to get to the surface. If I was at 130 fsw, I’d sure as heck try the ascent with a 6 cu ft pony bottle, or even a Spare Air if that’s all I had, over an ESA any day, and I have little doubt that I’d make it to the surface. It may not be a safe 60’ per minute ascent and I would be risking other, treatable dive maladies, but it is far better than the alternative. DCI is treatable, remaining underwater with no air to breathe is 100% fatal. That being said, I would never carry a bottle that small for a dive that deep as it is clearly inadequate, and there are far better choices available. But to those who say that you would be better off with nothing at all on rec dives, I must disagree.

“Simpler is safer”
The less complicated something is, the less likely you (as a human) are to screw things up, and the less humans you have in your "chain of survival", the less likely things are to go wrong. If you or your buddy end up in an OOA situation, it is almost always better to resolve the situation yourself rather than ascend connected to a buddy. The rate of double accidents on shared air ascents testifies to this. Some divers here say that they train regularly with their buddies on sharing air, etc, and this certainly the right thing to do, as long as you practice with everyone you dive with. But most people don’t do this, and it will not help with the unknown dive buddy that you are paired with on the boat against your will. But of even greater concern to me is the fact that you never know how someone is going to react when faced with a sudden emergency until they are actually faced with it. Training and practice certainly help, but at least twice now I’ve seen divers bolt toward the surface with eyes as big as saucers. I certainly don’t want to be attached to that person when he runs out of air. And I’ve seen several more do it from hazardous environments on land, despite literally hundreds of hours of training. You simply do not know for sure when someone is going to panic.

Anyway, the bottom line is self sufficiency. You can enjoy buddy diving, be a good dive buddy, and still be self sufficient. If your buddy needs you, you are there. But if he can resolve the problem using self sufficiency, even better. Safe diving involves planning, and that means planning for the unexpected. A fully redundant air supply is a valid part of that equation.

 

[SteveDiver]

keeping with the condom analogy. (since goofy opened that door) yeah the baggie got you though the sex, but your partner will still end up pregnant despite your best effort.

Oh no, I may have a mistake walking around somewhere!

 

[The Chairman]

AWAP... no statistical evidence; only lots of experience watching divers. Of course, since I don't sell equipment, I have no reason to push it or not push it. Most people throw their money at gear, when training would be far better for them. Do you have any evidence to give us?

RIDiver... A true redundant air supply would be equal to the main supply. The best erdundancy is a double tank with an isolation manifold. Anything less than a 40 at any depth is useless. Feel free to dive in any way you please, but I would not stake my life on redunancy just for lip service.

DFM... Again experience has shown that those who rely on their sparedeath over their buddy tend to not think in terms of managing limits. Is this true for every diver? Of course not, just the vast majority of those that I have met.

My buddy IS my redundant air source. I do not argue against them but would rather have a rather large supply available. This is even more important when doing ANY overhead diving which includes using the rule of thirds.

Again, there are no "Scuba Police" around that will fine you for relying on inadequate equipment or training. This doesn't mean that death is not waiting patiently for you to try and cash a check your equipment and training can't cover.

 

[Sideband]

Not only that but what is with all of those divers with buddies with no Octo or a missing buddy? No buddy check or equipment briefing? No need to check tank pressure before or during the dive either. When you can't breath any more just whip out the spare air... I'm wondering about the "Tank failure" one myself. "Tank failure at about 28 ft. No air". Running out of air is not a failure of the tank. Looking at a pressure guage every once in a while will stop that failure.

Most of those dives should have been aborted while still on the boat.

Joe

 

[redacted]

AWAP... no statistical evidence; only lots of experience watching divers. Of course, since I don't sell equipment, I have no reason to push it or not push it. Most people throw their money at gear, when training would be far better for them. Do you have any evidence to give us?

RIDiver... A true redundant air supply would be equal to the main supply. The best erdundancy is a double tank with an isolation manifold. Anything less than a 40 at any depth is useless. Feel free to dive in any way you please, but I would not stake my life on redunancy just for lip service.

DFM... Again experience has shown that those who rely on their sparedeath over their buddy tend to not think in terms of managing limits. Is this true for every diver? Of course not, just the vast majority of those that I have met.

My buddy IS my redundant air source. I do not argue against them but would rather have a rather large supply available. This is even more important when doing ANY overhead diving which includes using the rule of thirds.

Again, there are no "Scuba Police" around that will fine you for relying on inadequate equipment or training. This doesn't mean that death is not waiting patiently for you to try and cash a check your equipment and training can't cover.

I agree that a good buddy, or a redundent gas supply adequately sized to terminate a dive in a normal fashion are preferable to something like a spare air. But in some cases those approaches are just not possible and practical. I guess if you have never found yourself without a known good buddy or out of range of your doubles due to travel requirements, then the proposed solution will always be sufficient and adequate. But doubles are a bit hard to carry on a dive vacation, divers do find themselves on a boat full of strangers, and most Cozumel DMs are going to lead their pack thru those swimthroughs. For those situations, the convienient safety margin provided by a spare air or pony may be a very reasonable precaution. While I prefer a small pony when I'm not with a known buddy, I've often thought how much easier a spare air would pack and travel.

The air in my pony gets used a lot but has never been used to extend a dive. I like to test it often.

 

[markfm]

For $300 (about what my LDS charges for a Spare Air) I got a 40cft bottle with 1st and 2nd stages and a pressure guage. They also helped me set it up properly as a slung stage or pony bottle and dove with me to show how to properly use it.

Joe

Good price I'm looking at a chunk more more, though that includes the QuickDraw bracket.