Something you might want to consider..
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mikemill
Contributor
Heh this is the norcal board. "Warm" is 60 degrees 
OP
Kudo's to everyone who can dive an hour on one tank...your are just awesome and probally the best divers in Monterey Bay!...my experiance is that everyone has different air consumstion for different reasons...I would never dream of putting someone down because their consumtions was not what I thought it should be...these two divers(not me) estimated to me that they had approx . 39 min bottom time..that is time at a depth of 85'...they still had the surface time and deco time so dive was over an hour...both are probally the best I have dove with and have years of experiance...but that said,,,they probally aren't as good as those who dive longer times..
We do have little experiance on dive boats...because my hubby, is a boat captain and we dive from our on boat...but I stand my views that if there is tech diving going on (and I'm talking about hour on bottom and another getting back to the surface. I prefer not to dive that boat...but I know my comfort level and what I like and I have enough experiance to realize this...and there are enough boats going out of Monterey to accomidate ALL divers and their needs...I would not ask those who want to tech dive or those who have unbelievable bottom times to change to accomadate those of us who are inexperianced DM's or Instructors...
All sarcasim aside,, it is a good thing to know your preferances and abilities.. We do which makes us happy and safe divers....It's amazing how many think that their preferance as divers is the only right way to dive...and Zen I can tell you for a fact that you can get seasick in the water bobbing on the surface...you can also get seasick under water,,,and you can puck thru a regulator...after 34 years of scuba diving I have proudly experianced just about all of it...but I'm sure there is more to learn,,,
We do have little experiance on dive boats...because my hubby, is a boat captain and we dive from our on boat...but I stand my views that if there is tech diving going on (and I'm talking about hour on bottom and another getting back to the surface. I prefer not to dive that boat...but I know my comfort level and what I like and I have enough experiance to realize this...and there are enough boats going out of Monterey to accomidate ALL divers and their needs...I would not ask those who want to tech dive or those who have unbelievable bottom times to change to accomadate those of us who are inexperianced DM's or Instructors...
All sarcasim aside,, it is a good thing to know your preferances and abilities.. We do which makes us happy and safe divers....It's amazing how many think that their preferance as divers is the only right way to dive...and Zen I can tell you for a fact that you can get seasick in the water bobbing on the surface...you can also get seasick under water,,,and you can puck thru a regulator...after 34 years of scuba diving I have proudly experianced just about all of it...but I'm sure there is more to learn,,,
Anti-Hero
Contributor
I don't mind being the first one back on the boat, it's a longer rest / SI before the second dive. And when you're diving off the Monterey Express, any additional surface interval you can get is a GOOD thing!
The point I was trying to make is that tech divers don't DO an hour on the bottom. At 150 feet, you are doing a minute of deco (roughly) for every minute of bottom time. Carrying one deco bottle, you are really practically limited to about 20 to 30 minutes of bottom time, and the same amount of decompression. When you get to 200 feet, you are doing two minutes of deco for every minute of bottom time, so if you do 20 minutes of diving, you do 40 minutes of decompression. The net time runs between an hour and an hour and 15 minutes. Rebreather divers can do more, but those are the kinds of times you see for most technical dives.
What I have learned from boat tending for tech divers is that they're a delight. They have a schedule, you know WHERE they are diving, and how long they will be there, and when you can look for them on the upline. This is totally different from recreational divers on large tanks, who may go anywhere, and can often spend much longer times in the water.
You may have had some people with extremely long dive times, but I'd be willing to bet they weren't the technical divers.
And if you reread your original post, it strongly suggests that the total dive time of the people who were unhappy was 39 minutes.
Alibi 2 -- It would be quite interesting to know what actually occurred on this trip -- how much time did your husband's team spend in the water -- were they first in/first out? -- IF there were tech teams doing deco, were they first in/last out? -- etc.
Also, was it really the result of the tech teams that caused your husband's buddy to get seasick or was it just that he got seasick? In my only time diving in MB there were a couple of people on board who were very quiet the whole time -- turns out they were both seasick almost from the getgo (one I learned later pretty much gets seasick thinking about a boat ride!).
I think your BASIC observation is correct -- everyone on a boat should have a good idea of the parameters of the diving -- for example, 45 minute total run time, 60 minute, whatever -- which is something the Captain needs to make clear. On the various boats I've been on where there were mixed teams (tech and rec) I've generally used the rule to let the tech guys go in first (more room for me to kit up) but that also generally means I'm one of the last back on the boat (generally, last in/last out) but even IF I'm last in/first out, the times pretty much even out.
The key is NOT to forego diving a "mixed boat" but just to make sure the diving times are rationalized. (Not to mention, IF you are susceptible to motion sickness, use a patch!).
Alibi 2 -- Query -- Would your husband (and in rebound you) have been so upset had the buddy NOT gotten sick and left your Instructor husband with a ding bat insta-buddy?
Also, was it really the result of the tech teams that caused your husband's buddy to get seasick or was it just that he got seasick? In my only time diving in MB there were a couple of people on board who were very quiet the whole time -- turns out they were both seasick almost from the getgo (one I learned later pretty much gets seasick thinking about a boat ride!).
I think your BASIC observation is correct -- everyone on a boat should have a good idea of the parameters of the diving -- for example, 45 minute total run time, 60 minute, whatever -- which is something the Captain needs to make clear. On the various boats I've been on where there were mixed teams (tech and rec) I've generally used the rule to let the tech guys go in first (more room for me to kit up) but that also generally means I'm one of the last back on the boat (generally, last in/last out) but even IF I'm last in/first out, the times pretty much even out.
The key is NOT to forego diving a "mixed boat" but just to make sure the diving times are rationalized. (Not to mention, IF you are susceptible to motion sickness, use a patch!).
Alibi 2 -- Query -- Would your husband (and in rebound you) have been so upset had the buddy NOT gotten sick and left your Instructor husband with a ding bat insta-buddy?
Adobo
Contributor
Disclosure: I was not on the boat and I have not talked with anyone who was.
This is a function of SAC rate, depth and amount of gas available. If one diver shows up with an al80 and another diver shows up with an HP100, all else being equal, the guy who shows up with HP100s is going to have a longer dive. On boat dives where everyone is in a single tank, are you going to be upset at all divers that bring bigger tanks than yours?
Did someone put down divers with bad SAC rates? Because I would also be offended as I have the worst SAC rate out of the group of people I dive with. And I don't personally feel it is my fault that I have a high SAC rate.
Something doesn't add up here.. According to HBDiveGirl
That says to me that everyone's run time (from the time they jump into the water to the time they are surfacing) is ~1hour. This would be consistent with every boat dive I have been on in Monterey. The exception is the team that got blown off the upline.
If your husband's run time was ~ 1hour also, it seems like things were in line from a timing perspective.
Clearly, the facts are all mixed up. Based on HBDiveGirl's post and based on the pictures I see posted by one of the divers who was actually on the boat (which indicate that the gear configurations are not geared towards tech dives), it is hard to see how anyone was diving any profiles that had run times of much more than 1hour.
With regards to scooters, on all boat dives I have been on, I have been told to follow the anchor line during ascent. If I miss the anchor line and ascend away from it, I will wind up away from the boat. How far away from the boat will be a function of how bad the current is. This is irrespective of whether I am kick diving or scootering.
Something is clearly bugging your husband (and by extension, you). Whatever the issue is, I suspect that the best way to fix it or not to have it again in the future is to identify and isolate the real problem.
alibi 2:
This is a function of SAC rate, depth and amount of gas available. If one diver shows up with an al80 and another diver shows up with an HP100, all else being equal, the guy who shows up with HP100s is going to have a longer dive. On boat dives where everyone is in a single tank, are you going to be upset at all divers that bring bigger tanks than yours?
alibi 2:
Did someone put down divers with bad SAC rates? Because I would also be offended as I have the worst SAC rate out of the group of people I dive with. And I don't personally feel it is my fault that I have a high SAC rate.
alibi 2:
Something doesn't add up here.. According to HBDiveGirl
HBDiveGirl:
That says to me that everyone's run time (from the time they jump into the water to the time they are surfacing) is ~1hour. This would be consistent with every boat dive I have been on in Monterey. The exception is the team that got blown off the upline.
If your husband's run time was ~ 1hour also, it seems like things were in line from a timing perspective.
alibi 2:
Clearly, the facts are all mixed up. Based on HBDiveGirl's post and based on the pictures I see posted by one of the divers who was actually on the boat (which indicate that the gear configurations are not geared towards tech dives), it is hard to see how anyone was diving any profiles that had run times of much more than 1hour.
With regards to scooters, on all boat dives I have been on, I have been told to follow the anchor line during ascent. If I miss the anchor line and ascend away from it, I will wind up away from the boat. How far away from the boat will be a function of how bad the current is. This is irrespective of whether I am kick diving or scootering.
Something is clearly bugging your husband (and by extension, you). Whatever the issue is, I suspect that the best way to fix it or not to have it again in the future is to identify and isolate the real problem.
I can do a one hour dive on a short filled 80. I hate boats that tell me to be back in 40 minutes. I want to enjoy every dive for as long as I can. I went to Costa Rica and was way upset because of dive time limits to 40 minutes, to accommodate the poor and newly certified divers that had poor SAC rates. Thankfully that seems to happen in the tropics and not around here.
Phil is a great captain. He runs a great dive op in Monterey. IMO, he runs the best. The divers you speak of, those that had good gas consumption, could have stayed down for two hours, a couple of them with a single 95. They never use their gas completely. They are all aware of other divers on the boat and are very considerate divers. I've been on many boats with them and they always ask the captain how long can they stay down, and then stick to what they are told.
The real problem is that the seas were way up the day you chose to take a boat. I was supposed to go out the day before, but knew it would be a really sucky SI, so I canceled. Just like when diving off the beach, you should check conditions for the open ocean. If you get sea sick, or even think you might get sea sick, take something before the trip. You shouldn't place blame on other divers for not being prepared.
Phil is a great captain. He runs a great dive op in Monterey. IMO, he runs the best. The divers you speak of, those that had good gas consumption, could have stayed down for two hours, a couple of them with a single 95. They never use their gas completely. They are all aware of other divers on the boat and are very considerate divers. I've been on many boats with them and they always ask the captain how long can they stay down, and then stick to what they are told.
The real problem is that the seas were way up the day you chose to take a boat. I was supposed to go out the day before, but knew it would be a really sucky SI, so I canceled. Just like when diving off the beach, you should check conditions for the open ocean. If you get sea sick, or even think you might get sea sick, take something before the trip. You shouldn't place blame on other divers for not being prepared.
My wife and I dove the Cypress Sea with Captain Phil in october. He gave a thorough briefing, and was very accomodating as far as dive sites, and times. The boat is very comfortable, with heated cabin. We had a great time and plan on a return trip, and will definitely dive with Phil! As others have stated a 39 min.dive time is short unless it was a deep dive. We dove ball buster on our first dive, at 100 ft., and had a run time of 40 min. using steel 95s.
DocWong
Contributor
Phil elected to take us pretty far south, past Point Lobos to K-Pasa which was a treat. Often times the conditions don't allow us going that far south or perhaps it's some hesitation due to gas prices, which have been a lot better lately.
Phil did mention that almost all of the divers present (doubles and single tank divers) were strong divers which led to his decision of us diving K-Pasa. There was a pretty decent current, but he felt that everyone would be ok in it.
Besides the fellow diver who got sea sick (yea blame it on the tech divers ), it looks like most everyone enjoyed the great viz and the 2 wonderful sites Capt Phil took us out to.
This was a recreational charter and not a tech charter so everyone is expected to dive recreationally. As far as I know, that was the case.
When divers show up in all that gear, it does look like they are going for a long dive, but this is not necessarily so.
I think I knew most if not all of the divers on the boat diving in doubles. While there certainly was an abundance of deco bottles present as far as I know, no one did a deco dive. Even if they did, they are limited to about a 60 minute dive time.
There were 3 divers, tech students of Phil's, in doubles and deco bottles practicing ascents and such, but doing recreational profiles.
I was in doubles with an oxygen bottle doing recreational profiles. I find even on recreational dives, cleaning up on oxygen, I feel better that evening as far as any fatigue goes.
Great day of diving, here's my dive report of the day, assuming you're talking about Sunday Dec 28th:
Dive 1
K-Pasa, max depth 105 feet, 54 minutes, viz 50-70, 49 degrees F. Boat dive on the Cypress Sea with Capt. Phil which is always lively and entertaining! Equipment: Doubles with EAN 32, Cuda Scooter.
We splashed down, Warren with his X-Sierra, me with the Cuda and met Ken and Claudette at the bottom. We hung with them for most of the dive, posing for photos and thoroughly enjoying the wonderful 70' viz, hopping from one pinnacle to the next. It was quite a joy seeing how Ken and Claudette worked together in photos. Once Warren's strobe arms wree fully extended, I could see he was right at home in this enviroment. Once in awhile I would be courious looking at a section of reef and losing sight of Ken and Claudette only to find them by getting out in the open to spot them again.
Dive 2:
Carmel Pinnacles, max depth 68 feet, 64 minutes, viz 15-40 feet, 50 degrees F. Boat dive on the Cypress Sea with Capt. Phil. Equipment: Doubles with EAN 32, Cuda Scooter
The four of us were on scooters. Ken and Claudette (visiting from LA) went in first , then Warren (visiting from Toronto) and I went in a few minutes afterwards. Ken and Claudette were off doing photos of the 1000s Sea Nettle jellyfish they happened upon. We descended and found some some decent surge and current. The forest of tall kelp whle swaying kept an overall 45 degree angle. We ducked down into several channels and found calm clear water allowing Warren to get some good photos. Since it was so calm in certain spots I just held my scooter and swam, not being too anxious to travel much in the current and surge.
It was quite a treat swimmimg thru the varrious channels between the pinnacles, playing in the surge. At times that water was crystal clear and at other times there was only 10 feet of viz. Since the current was rippinng we came up the kelp forest gently holding onto kelp. A nice calm stop for 3 minutes at 20 feet and at 10 feet and a short scooter to the boat which nicely ended a weekend of diving, ready to bring in the new year!
Phil did mention that almost all of the divers present (doubles and single tank divers) were strong divers which led to his decision of us diving K-Pasa. There was a pretty decent current, but he felt that everyone would be ok in it.
Besides the fellow diver who got sea sick (yea blame it on the tech divers
), it looks like most everyone enjoyed the great viz and the 2 wonderful sites Capt Phil took us out to. This was a recreational charter and not a tech charter so everyone is expected to dive recreationally. As far as I know, that was the case.
When divers show up in all that gear, it does look like they are going for a long dive, but this is not necessarily so.
I think I knew most if not all of the divers on the boat diving in doubles. While there certainly was an abundance of deco bottles present as far as I know, no one did a deco dive. Even if they did, they are limited to about a 60 minute dive time.
There were 3 divers, tech students of Phil's, in doubles and deco bottles practicing ascents and such, but doing recreational profiles.
I was in doubles with an oxygen bottle doing recreational profiles. I find even on recreational dives, cleaning up on oxygen, I feel better that evening as far as any fatigue goes.
Great day of diving, here's my dive report of the day, assuming you're talking about Sunday Dec 28th:
Dive 1
K-Pasa, max depth 105 feet, 54 minutes, viz 50-70, 49 degrees F. Boat dive on the Cypress Sea with Capt. Phil which is always lively and entertaining! Equipment: Doubles with EAN 32, Cuda Scooter.
We splashed down, Warren with his X-Sierra, me with the Cuda and met Ken and Claudette at the bottom. We hung with them for most of the dive, posing for photos and thoroughly enjoying the wonderful 70' viz, hopping from one pinnacle to the next. It was quite a joy seeing how Ken and Claudette worked together in photos. Once Warren's strobe arms wree fully extended, I could see he was right at home in this enviroment. Once in awhile I would be courious looking at a section of reef and losing sight of Ken and Claudette only to find them by getting out in the open to spot them again.
Dive 2:
Carmel Pinnacles, max depth 68 feet, 64 minutes, viz 15-40 feet, 50 degrees F. Boat dive on the Cypress Sea with Capt. Phil. Equipment: Doubles with EAN 32, Cuda Scooter
The four of us were on scooters. Ken and Claudette (visiting from LA) went in first , then Warren (visiting from Toronto) and I went in a few minutes afterwards. Ken and Claudette were off doing photos of the 1000s Sea Nettle jellyfish they happened upon. We descended and found some some decent surge and current. The forest of tall kelp whle swaying kept an overall 45 degree angle. We ducked down into several channels and found calm clear water allowing Warren to get some good photos. Since it was so calm in certain spots I just held my scooter and swam, not being too anxious to travel much in the current and surge.
It was quite a treat swimmimg thru the varrious channels between the pinnacles, playing in the surge. At times that water was crystal clear and at other times there was only 10 feet of viz. Since the current was rippinng we came up the kelp forest gently holding onto kelp. A nice calm stop for 3 minutes at 20 feet and at 10 feet and a short scooter to the boat which nicely ended a weekend of diving, ready to bring in the new year!
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