Some things that I haven't learned yet

[Guy Alcala]

You're diving ten pounds lighter than I am. I have a 20 lb weight belt, a five pound backplate, and use two three-pound weights in camband weight pouches. I think we are both using LP95s for tanks, right?

Ye gods, Lynne, you must put enough gas in your suit to look like the Michelin (wo)Man! 31 lb. for a single tank? I know from previous comments that you need a lot more insulation than I do, but with a Mk. 3 and one of my LP112s (-1/-8) I'd only need about 20 lb. (6 lb. BP, 14 lb. lead), and I'm a lot bigger than you are. Have you considered not carrying extra weight to put more gas in your suit, and instead going for one of those electrical or chemical heating units? It would probably make walks to/from the water a lot more pleasant (safer, too).

Guy

 

[Soakedlontra]

You're diving ten pounds lighter than I am. I have a 20 lb weight belt, a five pound backplate, and use two three-pound weights in camband weight pouches. I think we are both using LP95s for tanks, right?

I use a 100 and 80 HP Steel tanks.

 

[TSandM]

I don't inflate my suit much at all; in fact, I couldn't be a Michelin woman if I wanted to, because I dive with my valve open. I just take that much weight. I wear a Diving Concepts base layer, three pairs of socks, a 200 g Thinsulate vest, and my MK3, and I'm several pounds positive in and of myself. I HATE the weight I carry, but it's really the minimum; any less, and with low tanks, an empty wing and my drysuit squeezed as much as I can manage, I'm too light on ascent.

I've tried the generally available heating vests that they sell for hunters -- they help a little, but the ones we bought turn out to be so unreliable (bad connectors or wiring) that they're pretty useless. I keep looking at the Golem Gear setup (and now the UTD one) but spending $1000 for suit heat just isn't in a realistic budget, and I'm not sure it would let me cut down on undergarments, anyway. Even the DIY systems my friends have run about $600 by the time they're finished with them.

I just accept horrendous amounts of weight as the price I pay to dive comfortably in cold water.

 

[Guy Alcala]

I don't inflate my suit much at all; in fact, I couldn't be a Michelin woman if I wanted to, because I dive with my valve open. I just take that much weight. I wear a Diving Concepts base layer, three pairs of socks, a 200 g Thinsulate vest, and my MK3, and I'm several pounds positive in and of myself. I HATE the weight I carry, but it's really the minimum; any less, and with low tanks, an empty wing and my drysuit squeezed as much as I can manage, I'm too light on ascent.

I've tried the generally available heating vests that they sell for hunters -- they help a little, but the ones we bought turn out to be so unreliable (bad connectors or wiring) that they're pretty useless. I keep looking at the Golem Gear setup (and now the UTD one) but spending $1000 for suit heat just isn't in a realistic budget, and I'm not sure it would let me cut down on undergarments, anyway. Even the DIY systems my friends have run about $600 by the time they're finished with them.

I just accept horrendous amounts of weight as the price I pay to dive comfortably in cold water.

I wonder if going to some of the chemical heat packs would at least allow you to lose the vest and one or more pair of socks. I know some of the heat packs are dangerous if they get water in them or leak, but ISTR there's one kind where that's not a problem. And I assume that you use a dry hood rather than a drysuit hood? I'm thinking it probably makes a lot more sense to improve my head insulation before I start piling extra layers on my torso. I know that's the case while on land, where I can control my temperature over quite a wide range just by putting on or removing my balaclava. Doesn't Ken on DM use a dry hood in SoCal?

Guy

 

[TSandM]

I used the iron filing ones before I started diving Nitrox, but you can get burned by them on enriched mixes. The sodium acetate ones (the ones you squeeze to get started) turn rock-hard when they are spent, so they aren't much good in anyplace where movement is necessary.

I use a wet hood, but a thick and well-fitted one. This is one place my friends bug me, because they want me to upgrade to an Otter Bay 12 mm hood. I haven't done that yet, in part because you add TWO POUNDS to sink the darned things!

 

[Guy Alcala]

I used the iron filing ones before I started diving Nitrox, but you can get burned by them on enriched mixes. The sodium acetate ones (the ones you squeeze to get started) turn rock-hard when they are spent, so they aren't much good in anyplace where movement is necessary.

I take it the sodium acetate ones won't last long enough for an entire tech dive, so just swapping them out during the SI before they turn to stone isn't practical?

I use a wet hood, but a thick and well-fitted one. This is one place my friends bug me, because they want me to upgrade to an Otter Bay 12 mm hood. I haven't done that yet, in part because you add TWO POUNDS to sink the darned things!

I wonder if it'd allow you to move some trim weight up off your belt. After all, that two lb. is on your head, so you might not need as much weight low down. I've considered changing to an OB once my DUI hood dies, or maybe a Seasoft, which is either 6 or 7mm compressed neoprene, so might be better for deep diving and wouldn't require any extra weight. I'm also seriously considering trying an attached latex dry hood the next time my neck seal dies, or at least once I'm doing tech dives. Ice divers use them for a reason, and given your cold sensitivity you're effectively diving in ice water anytime the water temp's only 45 or 50 degrees.

Guy

 

[TSandM]

Actually, I'm really not at all unhappy with my 20 lb weight belt. I use shaped hard weights, and they don't bother me a bit. It's just the total weight I carry that's onerous, and as you observed above, it makes difficult entries and exits that much harder.

With my current setup, which is manageable, I'm quite comfortable for 45 minutes, cool at 60, and cold beyond that. Which isn't bad, given our water temperatures.

To return the thread to its original topic, I think Betty is diving underweighted and not lofting her undergarments sufficiently, and that's why she's still cold. Even though I seem to require freakish amounts of weight, she's still light by the average requirements of folks I know in our area.

 

[Soakedlontra]

To return the thread to its original topic, I think Betty is diving underweighted and not lofting her undergarments sufficiently, and that's why she's still cold. Even though I seem to require freakish amounts of weight, she's still light by the average requirements of folks I know in our area.

The discomfort from the cold seems to be worse when I am half way through with the dive and If I dive in shallow water, as it has happened recently, adding air in the suit to keep me warm is not an option. I am able to stay down on an empty tank with the amount of weight that I have. However I have hardly any air in my suit, though...

Maybe I could try Sam's electric vest that he used to wear when he drove his motorcycle... ...I know I will have to add some more weight...

 

[TSandM]

Two things I'd do before I'd buy a heated vest -- add some weight (even two or three pounds will make a difference) until you don't have to have the suit so squeezed as the tank empties. I used to weight myself for an empty suit and empty wing and 500 psi in the tank at 10 feet. I now weight myself for an empty wing, tank BELOW 500 psi, and enough air in the dry suit to be mobile and comfortable. Yes, I carry more weight. But that way, at the end of the dive, when you've lost the most body heat and are getting chilled, you aren't also losing the benefit of your insulation. In addition, if you need to shoot a bag at the end of a dive, you can actually put a little downward tension on it to keep it upright. I found out about that the hard way.

The other thing I'd do is go to Argon for suit inflation. Although the formal studies are not consistent, everybody I know that dives argon agrees that it makes a noticeable difference -- and I do not purge my suit before the dives.

 

[Soakedlontra]

Two things I'd do before I'd buy a heated vest -- add some weight (even two or three pounds will make a difference) until you don't have to have the suit so squeezed as the tank empties. I used to weight myself for an empty suit and empty wing and 500 psi in the tank at 10 feet. I now weight myself for an empty wing, tank BELOW 500 psi, and enough air in the dry suit to be mobile and comfortable. Yes, I carry more weight. But that way, at the end of the dive, when you've lost the most body heat and are getting chilled, you aren't also losing the benefit of your insulation. In addition, if you need to shoot a bag at the end of a dive, you can actually put a little downward tension on it to keep it upright. I found out about that the hard way.

The other thing I'd do is go to Argon for suit inflation. Although the formal studies are not consistent, everybody I know that dives argon agrees that it makes a noticeable difference -- and I do not purge my suit before the dives.

Yesterday I tried to add weight and inflate my dry suit more. I did not do it in the way that you suggested, though. I added two pounds on my weight belt and did a whole dive, instead of doing a weight check at the end of the dive. That amount of weight was not enough to keep my buoyancy under control and have enough air in the suit to feel warmer.

So I guess I needed to add more. Well at the end of the dive I picked up a heavy pocket for integrated weights (it was probably at least 5 lbs) that a diver had dropped earlier on the bottom. So now I had 7lbs on me and I added air to my suit until I felt comfortable. I was able to stay down but felt like a hot air balloon and I did not like it.

Adding more weights and inflate the dry suit like a balloon does not seem to me the be a suitable option for me. Argon is not one either. My local dive shops don't have it and I am wondering: Is it worth to drive to Seattle to get it every few dives?

Maybe the Whites' MK3 is not the right undergarment for me, maybe that shell dry suit is not the right suit for me because it is too baggy...
A week ago I saw another woman diver wearing a Mobby's dry suit and hers seemed to fit her body shape better. It looked less wrinkled...

The only things that I can think to do next is to wear a base layer designed for ice divers and try Sam's electric vest.

Wish me good luck!