some observations from a new cave diver...

[merkin]

Naive views from a newbie...Would love comments and insight...

1) Pull and glide works well in proximal Ginnie, but it took several goes before I no longer formed callouses on my fingertips. Not good for me since I frequently work in an environment where Hepatitis B/C is rampant and I like to drink beer (FYI - unlike HIV, hepatitis virae survive for a week outside the body)

2) Devil's Ear sucks to run a line through - I have cramped my calves up several times coming out while trying to reel in line quickly. I also hate making safety/deco stops there.

3) Suunto Vyper puts me in decompression at the drop of a hat at Ginnie. I'm starting to hate the RGBM model....

4) The best times to go to Ginnie are on holiday weekends when all the drunk people scare you guys off - the caves are empty of divers then.

5) The lips gets me almost everytime - I'm kind of lengthy person but exiting from the left side seems to help.

6) I just want to keep going further.

7) What is the etiquette for meeting people down there? - I thought you were supposed to yield to exiting divers, but have had several experiences to the contrary while I was exiting, even from a GUE class at Peacock last weekend where they also left us a silt bomb exiting Peacock I Right Tunnel....

8) are there better maps out there? - I know the ones on the web, but am curious if there are maps that show which tunnel the mainline goes down and which jumps are where? I know the double arrows indicate jumps, but more detail would be helpful. I have done a few jumps while maintaining a continuous line and planning to get the cert for that soon.

9) running line is important. About your 3rd or 4th dive you start to think differently because no-one runs line at the Ear or seldom at Peacock, but as I do more dives I realize it is important to be at ease with this skill.

10) I want to go into a BIG room - are there any relatively near an entrance? Is the bone room worth it?

11) Banana hammock is starting to seem right for the wetsuit...

12) Finger spools kick *****.

 

[JimC]

1) Pull and glide works well in proximal Ginnie, but it took several goes before I no longer formed callouses on my fingertips. Not good for me since I frequently work in an environment where Hepatitis B/C is rampant and I like to drink beer (FYI - unlike HIV, hepatitis virae survive for a week outside the body)

If you pull and glide correctly, there is very little wear and tear on your hands. Technique trumps all - again.

2) Devil's Ear sucks to run a line through - I have cramped my calves up several times coming out while trying to reel in line quickly. I also hate making safety/deco stops there.

Technique. Its easy with some pratice.

3) Suunto Vyper puts me in decompression at the drop of a hat at Ginnie. I'm starting to hate the RGBM model....

Do the crime, do the time - Its worth it.

5) The lips gets me almost everytime - I'm kind of lengthy person but exiting from the left side seems to help.

In time the lips will seem big.

6) I just want to keep going further.

The darkness calls.

7) What is the etiquette for meeting people down there? - I thought you were supposed to yield to exiting divers, but have had several experiences to the contrary while I was exiting, even from a GUE class at Peacock last weekend where they also left us a silt bomb exiting Peacock I Right Tunnel....

Your correct, but more and more people are ignorant.

8) are there better maps out there? - I know the ones on the web, but am curious if there are maps that show which tunnel the mainline goes down and which jumps are where? I know the double arrows indicate jumps, but more detail would be helpful. I have done a few jumps while maintaining a continuous line and planning to get the cert for that soon.

There is a map of Ginnie with all of the lines marked on it. I am not sure where you can get it but its expensive.

9) running line is important. About your 3rd or 4th dive you start to think differently because no-one runs line at the Ear or seldom at Peacock, but as I do more dives I realize it is important to be at ease with this skill.

Very true. Running a line well could someday save your life.

10) I want to go into a BIG room - are there any relatively near an entrance? Is the bone room worth it?

What, the gallary isn't big enough for you? Bone room to the maple leaf is bigger - and its all worth it. Devils is a great system.

11) Banana hammock is starting to seem right for the wetsuit...

No comment

 

[PerroneFord]

8) are there better maps out there? - I know the ones on the web, but am curious if there are maps that show which tunnel the mainline goes down and which jumps are where? I know the double arrows indicate jumps, but more detail would be helpful. I have done a few jumps while maintaining a continuous line and planning to get the cert for that soon.

You mean like the one hanging in the deli at Ginnie? Contact Larry Green. Who's your cave instructor? He or She should know where to get you the map. I think it's $125 or $150.

 

[Jason B]

2) Devil's Ear sucks to run a line through - I have cramped my calves up several times coming out while trying to reel in line quickly. I also hate making safety/deco stops there.

When exiting, have the number 2 team member pull all tie-offs while you are still inside, reel in the line, stow your reel, exit.


The log is your friend. Let it block the flow for you.

 

[H2Andy]

nice feedback...

as to the maps available, they have the best two over at Salvos

http://www.salvodiving.com/

i'm sure they'll ship it to you if you buy it. both maps include the lines... one i believe is a limited edition of 500 .... the other is done by a female cave diver ... i don't recall her name ... that one is a bit less expensive, but it looks good too

here's a free one, but it doesn't show the lines

http://www.floridacaves.com/Devil1.pdf

 

[karstdvr]

Item#1 You'll find the more you practice at Ginnie and the more experience you get this will cease to be a problem. You are allowing your fingers to slide when pulling,when you need to get a solid grip and avoid sliding. Also you'll find that there are really only a few places that you need to pull ie the entrance,the lips,but there are many places you'll learn to be that will mitigate flow.

Item#2 The eye is your friend when it comes to deco.

Item#5 Wait until the flow is strong,because it is seriously diminished due to the drought,the lips can be a real challange. Before you say you hate the lips,be thankful you don't have to do the lips bypass or soft white fuzzy bunny tunnel.

Item#6 Believe it or not,if you slow down and look closely you'll see a lot without going far. I will take people on a dive at Ginnie that will last 1 hour and we'll never get beyond the cornflakes,and they'll all remark that they never saw half the stuff I showed them. Most newer cave divers are interested in seeing how far they can go,and strive for penetration,but sometime take an hour and poke around,you'll be surprised what there is to see.

Item#7 This has become a problem with time,for some reason this lesson isn't being taught (or learned) as well.

Item#8 There are a couple of very good Ginnie maps for sale that are close to a 3C grade.

Item #9 Complacancy kills. People will say you can't silt out Ginnie,BS. I have been in Ginnie where viz went to 0 around the Hill 400 jump because somebody used poor technique when trying to access the clay floored tunnel into the back door to the Expressway. In fact viz was 10' around the lips. Don't ever trust that a high flow cave will blow out the silt,and everything will be okay. I was in JB when a collapse happened,this caused the main passage to go to 0,and if I didn't have a jump line in I would expended a lot of time (gas) trying to find the main line,as well as a slower exit.
You'd think since JB is high flow that it would have blown out,but returning a few hours later viz only improved to 10'

Item#10 Bone room/Big room usually has some tannic intrusion due to its proximity to the river,but when the flow is strong and viz is great,it looks spectacular. There are some systems that make the Bone room/Big room look like side mount tunnels,so you have something to look forward to.

I agree the Devil's system is a great system. I've made 400+ cave dives in that system alone,and just when I think I've seem everything I will get blown away by something new.

 

[karstdvr]

There is a map of Ginnie with all of the lines marked on it. I am not sure where you can get it but its expensive.

There are definitive maps of Ginnie. There is Steve Berman's map which he spent years on (and his life too) that Anita Berman allowed to be sold,that I think you can purchase at the Ginnie dive shop. The other map which is the one done by Jeff Hancock is for sale by Debra Green,or if you see Jeff at Ginnie.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Great comments already. I just want to add a comment on #7 - Last month I saw a class in progress that failed to yield to exiting divers. I didn't see or hear the debrief but I sure hope the instructor chewed their *****es for not yielding. It does seem to be a problem. Another problem is exiting divers waving entering divers to go on. Rules are rules. Always take the right of way as the exiting team, even when you have plenty of gas and time to yield. Doing otherwise can give new cave divers the impression that it's okay not to yield.

 

[karstdvr]

Great comments already. I just want to add a comment on #7 - Last month I saw a class in progress that failed to yield to exiting divers. I didn't see or hear the debrief but I sure hope the instructor chewed their *****es for not yielding. It does seem to be a problem. Another problem is exiting divers waving entering divers to go on. Rules are rules. Always take the right of way as the exiting team, even when you have plenty of gas and time to yield. Doing otherwise can give new cave divers the impression that it's okay not to yield.

I generally yield to students where ever I can because they are having a tough time and generally have the "deer in the headlights" look. I agree I hope the instructor spends time teaching them post dive on what is the proper way to handle this situation even though they've probably heard it already in class. I can even forgive the student who blinds me with their HID since they want to see how small my pupil will constrict when I look at the sun. Unfortunately I do find there are some post training cave divers who forget proper ettiquette such as exiting team has the right away or shine your HID light away. When I scooter I always yield to the swimming team,unfortunately there are some that if they can "bump and run" they sure will. Please don't think this diatribe is common place,it happens fairly infrequently,but hopefully the inconsiderate few will read this thread.

 

[OWSI176288]

8) are there better maps out there? - I know the ones on the web, but am curious if there are maps that show which tunnel the mainline goes down and which jumps are where? I know the double arrows indicate jumps, but more detail would be helpful. I have done a few jumps while maintaining a continuous line and planning to get the cert for that soon.

Yes. Jeff Hancock's map shows line/jump locations, etc. I have a copy (#240), it's expensive, but definately worth it. It's great as a tool for pre-dive and post dive review. I haven't been to 1/3 of the areas marked on the map. But hopefully someday....

However, just increasing penetration distance without taking the time to look around and learn the cave isn't always a good thing. I found it's better to slow down (the cave opens up and you start to see more) and find side tunnel/jumps, etc. on you own. Or be show new passageways by an experienced cave diver who's been there before. Yes, progressive penetration is slower, but more satisfying and safer in the long run. Just MHO.