Some advice please

[jhr123]

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to these forums so excuse me if I'm completely misplacing this thread. There's a bunch of forums on here and this one looked like a pretty good fit for my questions.

Right now I'm diving on a regular recreational low-end BC and reg set, I'm very interested in a Backplate and Wings setup. Pretty much all of my diving has been warm water, mostly recreational but I've broken recreational depths a few times. I've been doing wrecks and reefs and walls, but I'm really interested in all types of diving, I'm would like to get into double cylinders diving, but I know that I wont be using doubles all that often. I've been looking for wings that will accommodate both singles and doubles and allow easy switching of the two. (It is the air bladder that is the biggest factor to take into consideration when configuring doubles, right? I really am new to all of this BP/W stuff and might need a bit of an explanation for any terms you guys are familiar with.) I was looking at the Diverite rec wing but it seems that this isn't really optimal for doubles because the tanks will limit the air allowed into the wings.... Any advice you could give me on what gear to consider would be incredibly helpful.

I was looking at this package - turns out I'm not allowed to post the link, it's the Technical Scuba BCD Package at divers-supply.com -. What do you guys think about it? I know it's not optimal by any means, but I figure if I got the 38lbs doubles wing and a single tank adaptor it could work, and would provide a good introduction for me into BP/W diving and allow me in the future to configure it with different parts. Also; it's comparatively cheap which is a huge plus.

Sorry for the long post and I hope you're able to make some sense of it. Anything you could tell me about these setups in simple terms would be great to know, even if I didn't specifically ask about it above.

Thanks everyone!

 

[TSandM]

Unfortunately, the answer is that there is no wing that is going to work well with single tanks and doubles. If the wing has the large, flat central area needed for doubles, it's going to put the air bladder portion well out away from single tanks, creating a tendency for the wing to "taco" and become difficult to vent. If the wing is made for single tanks, doubles are going to compress a lot of the lifting volume and lift is likely to be inadequate.

When you consider the cost involved in doubles -- buying the tanks, bands and manifold, and another first and second stage -- the price of a proper wing for that application is really not that significant.

If you primarily dive single tanks, buy a good single tank wing.

 

[Jim Baldwin]

Right now I'm diving on a regular recreational low-end BC and reg set, I'm very interested in a Backplate and Wings setup. Pretty much all of my diving has been warm water, mostly recreational but I've broken recreational depths a few times. I've been doing wrecks and reefs and walls, but I'm really interested in all types of diving, I'm would like to get into double cylinders diving, but I know that I wont be using doubles all that often. I've been looking for wings that will accommodate both singles and doubles and allow easy switching of the two. (It is the air bladder that is the biggest factor to take into consideration when configuring doubles, right? I really am new to all of this BP/W stuff and might need a bit of an explanation for any terms you guys are familiar with.) I was looking at the Diverite rec wing but it seems that this isn't really optimal for doubles because the tanks will limit the air allowed into the wings.... Any advice you could give me on what gear to consider would be incredibly helpful.

I was looking at this package - turns out I'm not allowed to post the link, it's the Technical Scuba BCD Package at divers-supply.com -. What do you guys think about it? I know it's not optimal by any means, but I figure if I got the 38lbs doubles wing and a single tank adaptor it could work, and would provide a good introduction for me into BP/W diving and allow me in the future to configure it with different parts. Also; it's comparatively cheap which is a huge plus.

Sorry for the long post and I hope you're able to make some sense of it. Anything you could tell me about these setups in simple terms would be great to know, even if I didn't specifically ask about it above.

Thanks everyone![/QUOTE]

If you're into single tank diving buy what you need now to make that work properly. As Lynne said there is no single wing that will work properly for both.

I have three BP/W setups for single tank diving and one for doubles. The single wings are 30 to 35 pounds with a small profile. They don't taco and make dumping air quite easy.

The doubles wing is wider and has 55 lbs of lift and perfect for doubles. If you eventually transition to doubles you need to buy a dedicated doubles wing.

If you use a wider wing you may become frustrated with your ability to properly control your buoyancy and maintain a good horizontial profile.

 

[Scott L]

Halcyon's equipment line is extensive and top quality. In addition, their new cinch system further sets them apart from other sources IMO. They are not cheap but you will never regret the selection....

Home | Halcyon Dive Systems

 

[chrisculina]

Unfortunately, the answer is that there is no wing that is going to work well with single tanks and doubles. If the wing has the large, flat central area needed for doubles, it's going to put the air bladder portion well out away from single tanks, creating a tendency for the wing to "taco" and become difficult to vent. If the wing is made for single tanks, doubles are going to compress a lot of the lifting volume and lift is likely to be inadequate.

When you consider the cost involved in doubles -- buying the tanks, bands and manifold, and another first and second stage -- the price of a proper wing for that application is really not that significant.

If you primarily dive single tanks, buy a good single tank wing.

Actually, Halcyon Eclipse 40 works very well with small and narrow doubles, e.g 2x7 l. Other than that, I agree.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to these forums so excuse me if I'm completely misplacing this thread. There's a bunch of forums on here and this one looked like a pretty good fit for my questions.

Right now I'm diving on a regular recreational low-end BC and reg set, I'm very interested in a Backplate and Wings setup. Pretty much all of my diving has been warm water, mostly recreational but I've broken recreational depths a few times. I've been doing wrecks and reefs and walls, but I'm really interested in all types of diving, I'm would like to get into double cylinders diving, but I know that I wont be using doubles all that often. I've been looking for wings that will accommodate both singles and doubles and allow easy switching of the two. (It is the air bladder that is the biggest factor to take into consideration when configuring doubles, right? I really am new to all of this BP/W stuff and might need a bit of an explanation for any terms you guys are familiar with.) I was looking at the Diverite rec wing but it seems that this isn't really optimal for doubles because the tanks will limit the air allowed into the wings.... Any advice you could give me on what gear to consider would be incredibly helpful.

I was looking at this package - turns out I'm not allowed to post the link, it's the Technical Scuba BCD Package at divers-supply.com -. What do you guys think about it? I know it's not optimal by any means, but I figure if I got the 38lbs doubles wing and a single tank adaptor it could work, and would provide a good introduction for me into BP/W diving and allow me in the future to configure it with different parts. Also; it's comparatively cheap which is a huge plus.

Sorry for the long post and I hope you're able to make some sense of it. Anything you could tell me about these setups in simple terms would be great to know, even if I didn't specifically ask about it above.

Thanks everyone!

Use your existing set for singles and buy a BP/W for doubles.

The DR Rec wing was successfully tested for lifting Luxfer 12l AL doubles (AL80) and 2 AL80 stage tanks in the Red Sea at depths up to 60m (200 ft). A DR BP was used.

Normally double tank wings allow switching to singles using single tank adapters. A couple of good examples are OMS 60 and 94 lbs wings. However, with those large wings, I doubt you'll feel comfortable diving a single tank.

 

[Colliam7]

I was looking at this package - turns out I'm not allowed to post the link, it's the Technical Scuba BCD Package at divers-supply.com -. What do you guys think about it? I know it's not optimal by any means, but I figure if I got the 38lbs doubles wing and a single tank adaptor it could work, and would provide a good introduction for me into BP/W diving and allow me in the future to configure it with different parts. Also; it's comparatively cheap which is a huge plus.

Several thoughts: 1) the package is OK. You get a wing, a harness and a SS BP for essentially $250. Not bad. I am unfamiliar with the 'Sea Elite' BP, but the package gets you started with a BP/W for reasonable $$. I am a little bothered by a slight deception - the website picture shows a Dive Rite BP, but that isn't what you get, nor is it even a package option. A couple of additional costs should be factored in - a) You will want a crotch strap. A cheaper 1" is fine, you could even make one yourself, but you will want one. b) As I read the package description, you will also need cam bands. You are already looking at the STA addition, but I don't see that the cam bands come with the STA. If they do, the price ($59) is amazing. But, I suspect they do not, and then the price for the STA is a bit higher than you would pay ($48) elsewhere (which is usually the case with packages like this). Make sure you get cam bands, and get the set of 2 DR SS buckle cam bands. Once you have added the STA and the bands, and a 1" crot ch strap, the price has moved up to about $372. Still OK, but not quite the very low $250. 2) The wing question is tough. The 32lb wing sounds like a good singles wing. The 38 lb wing is probably adequate for double AL80s. I do not know if it works at all with a single tank. The picture suggests it is a wide wing (appropriate for doubles), and that would probably produce a taco (wrap around the tank) effect with a single tank. As several posters have mentioned, you will be best served by looking at a true singles wing to start with, and then later add a true doubles wing. There are wings supposedly made for both - the DR Rec Wing being one example already mentioned I have a couple of Rec Wings, and have used them with both singles and doubles. They work reasonably well for both, but are ideal for neither. They are narrower than most doubles wings, so the taco effect is not as great, but they are a bit narrow for doubles and I find it more difficult to optimize my trim with doubles. They have more lift than I need with a single, although they are fine for double 80s. 3) I applaud your move toward a BP/W. If you use it for instruction in your current role, GOOD FOR YOU. But, even if you use it for personal diving at first, you are expanding your equipment horizoins and that will probably make you a better instructor in the long run.

 

[jhr123]

Thanks for all the help guys. I realize that a BC that will work with both singles and doubles is ideal for neither, but what I really want is something I can experiment with - try out types and styles of diving that I'm not all that familiar with it. The more I think about it the more I would like to get a wing more suited for doubles that could be used if necessary for single tank diving. I've used a friends backplate with just a tank attached to it - no BC - and really like that style which I may try and use for diving for fun in the future. What I may do is get the package I mentioned above with the singles wing and buy a Halcyon Evolve 40# BC seperately... any thoughts on that? I would probably use aluminium 12L tanks or something along those lines.
Colliam7 - When I get used to using a BP/W setup I will definitely use it in an instructional role... I just don't want to get it and be teaching with it the next.
Redseashadow - I like that idea, since I'm comfortable with what I have for singles I might as well keep using it and get comfortable using a BP/W setup for doubles and get used to it with a single tank as well.
TSandM - I see what you're saying but would really like to expand my diving horizons, if I keep buying and diving single tank gear then I'll never move past that IMO.

Thanks for all the input, I'm probably still a little bit away from buying my first setup but you have all given me alot to consider when making the purchases. Any more advice is welcome... .

Also, one quick question. What do you guys mean when talking about DIR and Hogarthian setups? Am I right when I think it's a principle of having a kind of minimalist setup where everything has an exact role in your setup and you don't have anything you wont or dont need?

Again, thanks for the help everyone.