Solo Technical Why?

[MaxBottomtime]

Where do you get it has no "required" equipment - both the PADI and SDI course most definitely have requirements.

This statement is asinine - unless you mean all training standards and their certification limits are meaningless.

If the only thing different in your solo diving is not worrying about your buddy - statistically soon enough someone will get hurt- hopefully it's not some newbie following your advice... Assuming you actually do any diving as an instructor- please let us know so we can notify your agency of your thoughts on the matter....

I wasn't referring to any courses. I was replying to uncfnp's post. He did not mention any courses. I began solo diving after a few years of diving with a buddy who left me underwater. I went searching for her for a long time before finally finding her on shore in street clothes. Twenty-five years later I still solo dive and even when diving with others we sometimes rarely see each other during a dive. There are no statistics that show an increasing number of dives increases the odds of someone getting hurt. If that were true I would have a great chance at winning the lottery.
Also, "complete redundancy of equipment"? Where do you keep your extra fins, weights and wetsuit?

 

[DaleC]

Who made up the requirements? The two agencies that certify solo divers SDI and PADI....

Really?

Hilarious, now PADI and SDI own solo diving and get to tell others what is "required"... Oh wait, wasn't it just a short while ago that PADI said solo diving was taboo?

But let's go back to the total redundancy thing for a moment. You do teach recreational buddy divers a lost diver protocol don't you? I believe it is look for your buddy for 1 minute and then surface. Do all buddy divers carry redundant air sources? If not, how do they survive the 1 minute and ascent? I mean, following your murphy rule of logic and all that. How are those divers expected to make it when a solo diver obviously always needs total redundancy because they can't?

I began solo diving shortly after being certified for several reasons. I found I was doing trust me dives and wanted to take more responsibility for my own experience, I worked odd hours and did not always have a buddy that wanted to do the same sorts of dives I wanted to, I have a natural propensity towards solitary pursuits be it canoeing, climbing, running or diving. It was somewhat a given that I would solo dive and have enjoyed doing so ever since.

 

[Nemrod]

I wasn't trying to argue against you, actually... I'm just a passive observer who's trying to better understand the practical side of your argument, and I got a bit lost. I apologize if I missed something... but then, if I did, maybe others missed it too, so it might actually be beneficial for you to set it straight? Often, we only think we communicated clearly, whereas in reality we didn't... I've skimmed over your posts, and I'm still not crystal clear on what sequence of concrete positive outcomes you are after. Here's the best I could make out of it:

1. Branding solo as rec removes the "tech" stigma that currently causes it to be perceived as dangerous...

2. ...and this encourages more people to discuss, learn, and participate...

2. ...and more people participating makes it more mainstream, which encourages dive charter operators to cater to solo divers...

4. ...so you get to dive solo on your favorite charter.

Is this accurate?

Yes, I want to be able to use my SDI Advanced Diver Solo certification. You got it. Solo can be recreational or technical, depending on the dive. The SDI and PADI certs are recreational and I want to promote the recreational solo diver outside of the tech forum.

Hilarious, now PADI and SDI own solo diving and get to tell others what is "required"... Oh wait, wasn't it just a short while ago that PADI said solo diving was taboo?

Yes, laughable is it not? Who died and went to heaven and appointed them the deciders of what is and is not required. They are new on the block. Some of us have been solo for decades. I mean, like, we are not experts at solo? I do not recall being interviewed by SDI or PADI to how I have managed to accomplish near 45 years of solo with nary an incident, any of you?

That said, they (SDI and PADI) have some standards. I think it reasonable to apply the SDI/PADI standards for the commercial operators who then can then point to a card. Same as any other recreational diver certification. They met the standard, let's dive. Because many of us depend upon resorts or dive charter operations to deliver us to the dive site. For those who dive from shore or their own boats, do as you wish. At least there are standards now to which a commercial operator can gauge and apply and should.

There is no evidence outside of anecdotal blather that solo is any more dangerous than buddy diving. Often accidents are grouped with solo when buddy teams get separated and then there is an accident, solo must have been the cause huh? That gets blamed on solo diving! No freaking way. That is a buddy team failure and proof in fact, if there are any facts, that solo is safer than buddy team diving. A solo diver goes in prepared to be solo, their mindset and plan are for solo, he/she is a complete system, a complete diver so to speak. A buddy team does not and so when separated you have two half systems/half divers swimming around unprepared to be solo. Thus the high rate of incidents with separated buddy teams. That buddy team diving, it sure is dangerous! Better ban it to the Tech forum!

And, the above, before you guys launch of on that DIR stuff, that is tech, we are talking rec, here. Yes, DIR rigging and instruction from GUE methodology as applied to technical diving results in two complete systems, essentially double redundancy when together and sufficiently redundant alone to survive until the errant DIR diver can return to the hive . This is an example of exactly why solo should be moved out of tech so you guys would quit confusing recreational solo divers with inane tech arguments. The standard recreational buddy team concept as taught by all abc agencies has no redundancy when separated!

The liability thing, it has been discussed and found that the insurers only care that you have the cards for the diving you are doing. Solo recreational diving is taught by two legit ABC agencies, it is not any different now than any other specialty. Just an excuse.

N

 

[mdb]

"Technical diving" is just complete BS of course, wrap up in hoses and drama rama.
Diving is diving. Not really no such thing as 'Technical"

 

[Nemrod]

"Technical diving" is just complete BS of course, wrap up in hoses and drama rama.
Diving is diving. Not really no such thing as 'Technical"

I agree and always have, it is a continuum. But some of us did our technical diving adventures before there were such certifications and I distinctly recall being told that trimix and nitrox and diving below 130 feet was for commercial divers. Thus the technical certs and training came along, too late for me because now my primary interest is warm water and pretty fishes. Those 230 plus foot air divers were a b------! Just saying. We get to do things now we did not get to do (easily) before because there are training and certs. Okay, there is now a recreational advanced diver certification for solo diving. Game on. Yes, I want the operations to accept the cards and training, why should I not expect that. I really want to take a few photos without your fins in them, .

N

 

[RJP]

Solo is a legitamate advanced SCUBA certification by at least two abc agencies. The genie is out, why pretend solo diving is not a legitamate recreational advanced SCUBA activity.

N

It may be a "specialty" but by no means any more advanced than "Drift Diver" or "Fish ID" really.

 

[scubadada]

I have been solo diving for many years. I obtained the SDI Solo Diver certification a couple of years ago and it has facilitated my solo diving with several operators who did not know me. To me, this is a good outcome.

I've always wondered how the PADI Self Reliant Diver is received under similar circumstances.

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2015 at 02:04 PM ----------

It may be a "specialty" but by no means any more advanced than "Drift Diver" or "Fish ID" really.

I disagree, don't believe this is correct. Both Drift Diver and Fish ID can be taken with only OW and no additional dives post certification. SDI Solo Diver requires AOW and at least 100 dives. Some of the required skills are beyond beginner (deployment of redundant air source, deployment of SMB...). I can't vouch for PADI Self Reliant Diver but believe it is similar. Cavern Diver or Ice Diver may have been better examples, both require AOW but they do not have a minimum dive requirement. We all know that you can be OW/AOW certified after 9 dives, none out of a training environment.

 

[kr2y5]

(...) I'm still not crystal clear on what sequence of concrete positive outcomes you are after. Here's the best I could make out of it:
1. Branding solo as rec removes the "tech" stigma that currently causes it to be perceived as dangerous...
2. ...and this encourages more people to discuss, learn, and participate...
3. ...and more people participating makes it more mainstream, which encourages dive charter operators to cater to solo divers...
4. ...so you get to dive solo on your favorite charter.
Is this accurate?

Yes, I want to be able to use my SDI Advanced Diver Solo certification. You got it. Solo can be recreational or technical, depending on the dive. The SDI and PADI certs are recreational and I want to promote the recreational solo diver outside of the tech forum. (...)

Thanks. Do we really have evidence to suggest that branding something as "tech" drives people away because they think it's too dangerous? I always thought it's the opposite... that "tech" tends to add a "cool" factor in many people's minds. I always thought that as far as perception of it as being dangerous, "solo" is in a category of its own...

 

[DaleC]

This really does bring up a big divide between members on the board (and in the community at large). Whether you approach solo diving as an agency, instructor, charter or whether you approach it as a self sufficient individual.

The "industry" is always trying to dumb down activities to the lowest common denominator in order to keep most people safe, most of the time. Probably a valid approach when you cannot determine individual skill sets and experience. This is where concepts like total redundancy and rule of thirds come in. Teach people that and they will be able to cope with most situations most of the time.

On the other hand, the solo forum is also made up of... solo divers; usually people who are self sufficient and in tune with how they dive and what they need to do it. So you have individuals saying this is what I do, this is how I do it. Over time you pick some things up and you put some things down. Like wearing a snorkel on your mask. For OW it is required but over time sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, sometimes it's in the pocket.

Personally, I tend to listen to the individual more, if they have experience, because their methodology is what works for active solo diving. What is in the book works for untested divers new to solo diving so they won't get hurt while they learn. The caveat being to measure the info given within it's context. What works soloing at 30' in the tropics may not work at 100' in the PNW.

IMO, individual solo divers should be careful to provide the context so there isn't misunderstanding and instructors should remember they are not talking to inexperienced students in their class.

As N alluded to, there is also a divide as to whether people approach solo diving from a tech perspective or a rec perspective.

The tech oriented tend to want to "over gear" everything because that is what they are used to... it's how you solve the problems of tech diving.

Someone from a rec perspective, particularly with skin diving experience, may look at things in a completely different light. In my case vintage equipment diving shapes my approach because it is gear light but skills heavy. I like to say that scuba diving is similar to skin diving except the underwater swim around portion is extended. Solo diving is just a more conservative form of scuba diving. But the approach is essentially the same. Take what is needed of course, but the emphasis is on planning, awareness, understanding limits and exit strategies. That is how I explain how I do it, not adding piece after piece of gear to negate deficiencies in those areas.

 

[Nemrod]

I always thought that as far as perception of it as being dangerous, "solo" is in a category of its own...

And that is the unjustified, unfounded, unsupportable bias we are dealing with.

This very thread is evidence alone of the confusion that tech status brings to what is really only an advanced OW diver certification, as applied by SDI/PADI and most of us who actually solo. Sure, if you get into overhead/deco etc, then solo can and is tech but that is far outside of the boundaries set by PADI and SDI for AOW divers.

N