Solo gear configuration

[captain]

The flaw in this logic is your assumption that because you have never had a reg fail that it won’t happen to you. Applying that same logic I should go without a seatbelt and an airbag because I have never been in a car accident. Just because things haven’t happened to us yet, doesn’t mean they won’t.



You are also making an assumption here, that backup or redundant systems imply some deficiency with the primary systems' integrity or quality. That isn’t the case. What redundancy does speak to is the criticality of the primary system. It may never fail but if it does, it is an essential system so we have it backed up.

If you Aqua Masters are comfortable diving the way you do that’s great and, frankly, I find your minimalist approach kinda cool. That your regs are probably older than me is way cool. But the argument that your setup would be less safe if you were carrying a pony is only valid with the assumption that it is impossible for your way cool reg to fail. You and I both know that isn’t true.

Further for you Aqua Masters, the rest of us here understand and look up to your considerable experience. That is why we are here asking our questions. And that is why I would prefer to see you qualify your remarks that your setup isn’t the norm (because it absolutely is not), and that it does assume more risk (because it undeniably does, particularly for those of us who aren’t diving your zero failure setups). This way us younger divers might take away more from your experience than your opinion that my pony bottle is unnecessary. I get enough of that attitude on the dive boats.

You can 't compare it to risk associated with driving simply because the greater amount of time we spend exposed to the hazzards of driving and most if not all driving accidents don't happen because of a failure of the automobile, they happen because of human error, both of the diver and/or other drivers.

No where have I said I would be less safe with a pony. I just don't feel it adds any great degree of additional safety.

The Aqua Master contains no "O" rings other than the one at the tank to regulator connetion. It has no pressurized hose and associated "O" rings supplying air to the diver that can rupture. I can either not use a BC or use only oral inflation ( see my avator photo) eliminating another potential hose or "O" ring rupture or stuck inflator. If I use an SPG, a HP hose failure is not nearly the issue it is with an LP hose because of the tiny orfice used.
Can the regulator fail, yes. I can also be hit by a meteor, but I don't worry about either because it is an extremely remote possibility.

I am not trying to discourage pony bottle use. Actually I feel it might be better when buddy diving to have one you can hand off to an out of air diver rather then get involved in an air share.

 

[Charlie99]

I do my solo dives with exactly the same gear as my dives with buddies. Usually single AL80 tank. I do bring two cutting devices on all dives.

My redundant air source is the atmosphere, no more than 50 or 60 feet away most of the time.

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One has to analyze all of the risks and figure out whether in the final analysis the intended dive presents an acceptable risk.

One should also avoid focusing on just one particular risk, such as reg failure, while ignoring other risks --- such as the increased difficulty of swimming against a current or passing through the surf zone in doubles or pony tank.

As a 59 year old guy -- in reasonably good shape, but still 59 -- I realize that among my biggest risks are medical problems like heart attacks. Hauling a whole bunch of extra gear doesn't help minimize that risk. Frequent exercise (which for me in the winter is solo shore diving) does help minimize that risk.

 

[yakandjak]

The classic example is a diver who has an unhealthy aversion to hoses, believing that if he can but find a way to remove a single hose from his rig, his "streamlining" will improve. If that diver makes an uninformed gear decision based on a practically religious devotion to "streamlining", that would be what I refer to as out of proportion.

(Hehe, did I explain it better? Basically, I love streamlining, but I'm not a stranger to the concepts of low-hanging fruit and of diminishing returns, i.e. fix the *big* problems *first* and don't assume that because something is *better* it must be *worthwhile*.)

Yep, makes perfect sense now. Thanks for the assist!

 

[yakandjak]

You can 't compare it to risk associated with driving simply because the greater amount of time we spend exposed to the hazzards of driving and most if not all driving accidents don't happen because of a failure of the automobile, they happen because of human error, both of the diver and/or other drivers.

You are correct there are differences between driving and diving and, of course, on a risk level the statistics aren’t even close. I was simply substituting your logic to a situation that I thought most would be familiar with. I agree the analogy isn’t perfectly symmetrical but the validity of the substitution remains.

No where have I said I would be less safe with a pony. I just don't feel it adds any great degree of additional safety.

You’re correct, my apologies. I believe I inferred that from your comment that, “The pony bottle serves no purpose other than a place to put another regulator that I don't need.” I assume most people would consider carrying another reg that you don’t need to be adding complexity where it isn’t required, creating a less safe condition.

Can the regulator fail, yes. I can also be hit by a meteor, but I don't worry about either because it is an extremely remote possibility.

If you truly place as much confidence as you do in your reg as this statement implies, I think the problem with your risk management just became clear. I will assume you were being facetious here.

Lets cut to the chase then with two questions:

You’re at 120’ and your impossible to fail reg fails, or your impossible to fail SPG fails…whatever OOA scenario you want to insert here will be fine. What do you do?

Second question: Do you recommend someone without your level of experience (say between 200-300 dives), diving with more modern equipment (which you have implied is less reliable), to dive solo without a redundant air source?

 

[captain]

You are correct there are differences between driving and diving and, of course, on a risk level the statistics aren’t even close. I was simply substituting your logic to a situation that I thought most would be familiar with. I agree the analogy isn’t perfectly symmetrical but the validity of the substitution remains.



You’re correct, my apologies. I believe I inferred that from your comment that, “The pony bottle serves no purpose other than a place to put another regulator that I don't need.” I assume most people would consider carrying another reg that you don’t need to be adding complexity where it isn’t required, creating a less safe condition.



If you truly place as much confidence as you do in your reg as this statement implies, I think the problem with your risk management just became clear. I will assume you were being facetious here.

Lets cut to the chase then with two questions:

You’re at 120’ and your impossible to fail reg fails, or your impossible to fail SPG fails…whatever OOA scenario you want to insert here will be fine. What do you do?

Second question: Do you recommend someone without your level of experience (say between 200-300 dives), diving with more modern equipment (which you have implied is less reliable), to dive solo without a redundant air source?

Being facetious, no.

#1, CESA

#2, I don't recommend anything, dive whatever configuration you feel comfortable with.

The complexity of some modern systems has decreased relibility to some degree.

Divers were dying before redundant systems for mostly the same reasons as now, failure to manage gas supply, diving beyond their experience, errors in judgment.

I think I answered the OP question and nothing more.

The point of these forums to me is not to get divers to do anything any particular way, It is to share methods and experiences and get divers thinking.

 

[Nemrod]

The possibility of Captain's or my Aqua Master totally failing such that it cannot supply any air to reach the surface is virtually impossible.

Most spg units have a small orifice which will prevent the rapid and sudden loss of tank pressure. A low pressure hose failure is much more "draining" to a tank than a hp hose fialure. The rig Captain and I use can be configured with NO LP hoses to fail.

Therefore as Captain implies, if I had an unlikely regulator problem at 120 feet it would not be a total failure. If the spg hose ruptured it would not be catastrophic in my experience. I would in your scenario, make a controlled ascent to the surface. A meteor is more likely to hit me and since I drive a Toyota which have been proven on U-tube to be meteor proof, I should be OK.

Below 100 feet or solo overhead diving, I agree, some redundancy may (may) be appropriate IF it can be accomplished without increasing the probablity of failure. That is a big "if" and "may" if I might say.

I see no problem with a pony, I often use one, however, carrying slates to write notes to myself, octapus seconds to share air with NOBODY, multiple computers, multiple spg/transmitter connections, multiple LP hoses do not alway increase reliabilty, they in fact can reduce it in some cases, why set up in such a way to increase your failure modes? By that I mean such statements as "I dive solo the same rig and the same way I buddy dive." I find that somewhat misguided. Buddy diving your redundancy is your buddy, if you have no buddy then the optimal buddy diver rig is not appropriate for solo since your missing the key component--the buddy. Solo frees you from certain cliche and arbitrary equipment/technique choices. Free your mind.

N

 

[yakandjak]

Understood all around. Thanks for the input gentlemen.

 

[Doc Harry]

Below 100 feet or solo overhead diving, I agree, some redundancy may (may) be appropriate IF it can be accomplished without increasing the probablity of failure. That is a big "if" and "may" if I might say.

I see no problem with a pony, I often use one, however, carrying slates to write notes to myself, octapus seconds to share air with NOBODY, multiple computers, multiple spg/transmitter connections, multiple LP hoses do not alway increase reliabilty, they in fact can reduce it in some cases, why set up in such a way to increase your failure modes? By that I mean such statements as "I dive solo the same rig and the same way I buddy dive." I find that somewhat misguided. Buddy diving your redundancy is your buddy, if you have no buddy then the optimal buddy diver rig is not appropriate for solo since your missing the key component--the buddy. Solo frees you from certain cliche and arbitrary equipment/technique choices. Free your mind.

N

Very interesting perspective.... I don't agree but will definitely think about it.....

 

[budgy]

We all compromise and accept that diffrent rigs have different values. What we choose may depend on our system of values, the risks we take and what we each find acceptable. I tend to dive minimalist, although I've tried pony's and used to be a fan of them, I don't regularly carry one anymore. I've found movement through the water to be more efficient with a back mounted single than standard back mounted twins. close fitting neoprene dry suits are better than tri-laminates, I've changed from jets to twin jet max fins. When solo I sometimes dive without a wing or BCD. Roughly this translates to lower air consumption and or an abilty to cover more ground at an increased speed.

Comparing drag factors, is anyone using underarm side slung cylinders as main cylinders instead of back mounted?

 

[shoredivr]

Another overlooked point is water temperature where you dive. With the very cold water temps around here in the Great Lakes (35 degrees in Georgian Bay on a dive mid-February, for example) a drysuit is vital, and so is the drysuit inflator hose. Regulators can freeflow in these kind of temps, so having a backup regulator is, in my mind quite prudent.

Budgy, Dive-aholic is sidemounting.