Solo dive on the U853 WWII German Submarine

[descent]

... It would be a sign of respect to bury them, rather than just leaving them out in a field. ...

Yes, I agree.

The meadow where the grunts fight and die is a battlefield.

The ocean bottom where the stricken sub comes to rest is a battlefield.

On land, after the guns are silent, work crews with shovels, headstones and wreaths can go to the infantry battlefield.

At sea, the only people who can perform even the most basic gestures of respect for the fallen are you, the wreck divers.

 

[NORTHEAST]

Well said descent.

---------- Post added June 21st, 2015 at 07:07 PM ----------

But at the same time I totally agree with what "fiddler" did.

 

[ozzydamo]

the resources aren't there and there other priorities.
.

YES! other priorities-like 54% of GDP on military expenditure- to make the world safe!
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/...ited-states/?gclid=CJy62a3H_MYCFUgGvAodWbAGHQ
U.S. military bases around the world: graphic | National Post
History of U.S. Military Interventions since 1890
Why the rise of fascism is again the issue

 

[AfterDark]

YES! other priorities-like 54% of GDP on military expenditure- to make the world safe!
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/...ited-states/?gclid=CJy62a3H_MYCFUgGvAodWbAGHQ
U.S. military bases around the world: graphic | National Post
History of U.S. Military Interventions since 1890
Why the rise of fascism is again the issue

I was thinking more of the 60+% of the US budget spent on social welfare programs and illegal aliens, rather than the 20% spent on the defense which of course is job number one.

 

[agilis]

It's a great northeastern wreck. Hard to believe the Germans were on our coast in WWII (and WWI)

I'm old enough to have seen some of the burned wreckage on NJ beaches when I was a small boy. Family members who lived near the NJ beaches got to see a sub or two while out fishing, and the eastern night sky brightly illuminated by burning tankers was a fairly common sight in 1942 and 1943.

At some point they closed the beaches and had daily patrols to recover bodies, mostly Merchant Marine but an occasional German sailor, who were given military funerals.

 

[PeterNBiddle]

I think you will find 'fiddler' that all the Nazi's you refer to on the U-Boat were actually members of the Kreigsmarine. Like I already said the Nazi party is just that a political party and assuming that they are all members is an assumption on your part and not a very educated one. I expect most of the boys were under 20 and probably couldnt give a toss about politics one way or the other.

My point being just because you happened to be a German did not automatically make you Nazi. Thankfully both you and me are living in an era where we are able to have a political choice (you may be either republican or democrat, I may be either Labour or conservative). Anyway this is a scuba forum so I think I made opinion quite clear (and thankfully I am able to do that in today's world). Irrespective on if you believe you are doing the right thing or not you should not be attempting to move any remains. Your intentions may be good but you don't have permission and if you felt the site was at risk you should report it to the correct authorities. My belief is that any war grave should not be penetrated, and certainly not just for your own sense of fun or adventure.

They were trying to kill us under the national banner of Nazism. This makes them agents of the Nazi state. Agents who chose to serve the fatherland and who weren't doing anything to keep Jews out of concentration camps. No, they were trying to increase the power and control of the German government, meaning that it could BUILD MORE. They might not have liked it, but that's what they were doing.

Whether they agreed with all the tenets of Nazism doesn't really matter to the widows and orphans of the Yankees they killed, does it?

They called us Yankees, but we aren't all Yankees. And did that matter to them? No, not so much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[wrybosome]

It doesn't matter whether you call them Nazi's or not, the grave site should be respected as such.

I wonder how quick some posters here would have been to take a stand against fascism if they had been 19 year old boys in in Germany in 1942.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[agilis]

They were trying to kill us under the national banner of Nazism. This makes them agents of the Nazi state. Agents who chose to serve the fatherland and who weren't doing anything to keep Jews out of concentration camps. No, they were trying to increase the power and control of the German government, meaning that it could BUILD MORE. They might not have liked it, but that's what they were doing.

Whether they agreed with all the tenets of Nazism doesn't really matter to the widows and orphans of the Yankees they killed, does it?

They called us Yankees, but we aren't all Yankees. And did that matter to them? No, not so much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Actually, they called us 'Amis', and Jews in concentration camps was a peripheral issue compared to Germany's global war aims, which were focused on domination of Europe , the destruction of the Soviet Union, and the extension of German settlement deep into Eastern Europe after the indigenous populations were removed, especially from Poland, western Russia, and Ukraine.

Beware of Hollywood History, especially anything by Steven Spielberg, who is about as reliable as Goebbels.

 

[CT-Rich]

It is unlikely that A) the German sailors were aware of mass exterminations of either Jews or anyone else. B) they had any real choice in supporting the war. The Nazi gov't was short on man power for the war effort and by 1944 when most of these boys were conscripted, the war was pretty clearly a lost cause. We were trying to kill them, no big surprise on that either. However, the politics of the dead is moot. That they fought bravely and died for there country is cause enough for respect. The U-boot service had a 75% casualty rate, the highest of any service in any military during WWII and they remained a cohesive force until the very end. Why this particular boat failed to observe the surrender will never be known, but they were part of a very disciplined and effective fighting force. They deserve a level of respect.

US Marines killed on Tarawa atoll in WWII battle finally repatriated thanks to Mark Noah of History Flight - CBS News

Take a look at how we expect our war dead to be treated. Germany lost over seven million people in the war, more than thirteen times the casualties of the US. At the end of the war They did not have the resources to repatriate every body. But, they did express a desire that the bodies be left alone.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

They were trying to kill us under the national banner of Nazism. This makes them agents of the Nazi state. Agents who chose to serve the fatherland and who weren't doing anything to keep Jews out of concentration camps. No, they were trying to increase the power and control of the German government, meaning that it could BUILD MORE. They might not have liked it, but that's what they were doing.

Whether they agreed with all the tenets of Nazism doesn't really matter to the widows and orphans of the Yankees they killed, does it?

They called us Yankees, but we aren't all Yankees. And did that matter to them? No, not so much.

All true, but they're long dead now. Surveying history, you won't find too many examples of long-enduring cultures who shunned the common tradition of treating enemy dead with basic respect--perhaps because maintaining grudges that long just isn't conducive to the kind of constructive civilization that lasts. Exceptions (see, e.g., Mussolini) merely reinforce the rule: you have to take a truly personal hand in ing things up before you get treated as pond scum even after you're dead.