Solo Cave Diving

[LiteHedded]

Wut??

It's true.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

The point about statistics and that this is an old discussion are both right. Here is the thing--every diver who has ever died in a cave died because they stopped living. The proximate cause is usually causes and accident analysis is useful, but oft times based on speculation and conditioned on the categories one is allowed to work with.

The most important data we don't have is the counter-factual, namely, how many cave divers would have died in caves but for the fact that their team mate pointed something out that prevented a cascade of causes leading to a fatality? That is really the key statistic and we don't know the answer.

What we do know is that the cave environment is one of the least forgiving environments for diver error or equipment failure. We also know that training with a team mate who makes solid decisions and who is concerned with personal and team safety will provide a second set of eyes and brains which will enhance safety on average. There will be the exception where the action of one causes the team to spiral out of control, but on average safety will be enhanced. This is the lesson of the WKKP.

So, I think that saying that solo cave diving is somehow not much riskier than team cave diving is really distorting the reality and could lead to someone reading this thread thinking there is little to no difference between the two. We all take risks. We should not kid ourselves as to what they are.

Well said..............except I have no idea what you are actually saying. It does appear to be the most politically correct, non finger-pointing, and fact stating post I have seen in some time. Could you translate this?

 

[plot]

Always dive with a buddy, but that doesn't mean the buddy has to be in the cave with you, if the environment isn't conducive to it. You need a second person to go over your plan and know your plan, and be waiting topside either for your return or to direct your recovery.

A buddy might also do part of a cave and wait while you do a tight offshoot solo. There's always a mental comfort in numbers.

 

[pedeseigne]

The point about statistics and that this is an old discussion are both right. Here is the thing--every diver who has ever died in a cave died because they stopped living. The proximate cause is usually causes and accident analysis is useful, but oft times based on speculation and conditioned on the categories one is allowed to work with.

The most important data we don't have is the counter-factual, namely, how many cave divers would have died in caves but for the fact that their team mate pointed something out that prevented a cascade of causes leading to a fatality? That is really the key statistic and we don't know the answer.

What we do know is that the cave environment is one of the least forgiving environments for diver error or equipment failure. We also know that training with a team mate who makes solid decisions and who is concerned with personal and team safety will provide a second set of eyes and brains which will enhance safety on average. There will be the exception where the action of one causes the team to spiral out of control, but on average safety will be enhanced. This is the lesson of the WKKP.

So, I think that saying that solo cave diving is somehow not much riskier than team cave diving is really distorting the reality and could lead to someone reading this thread thinking there is little to no difference between the two. We all take risks. We should not kid ourselves as to what they are.

Ok, no other choice with your answer. Team dive is OK an solo dive is banned...! For WKKPP, they are a vision, this one is not share by all the divers of the world. And nobody holds the perfect way of diving. Certainly not WKPP. I respect their way of diving but this is not the only one.

And I can say the same ...! I think that saying team diving is somehow not much riskier than solo diving is really distording the reality, etc...!

Best regards

pe

 

[TSandM]

I think MalibuJerry is spot-on . . . what we do not know, and can never know, is how many accidents are prevented by someone on the dive team noticing an issue that could have led to a fatality, and helping the team correct it before it spiraled out of control. We can't know that, because nobody reports those things, and because it's probably seldom clear how much trouble a given issue might have caused.

I do know of solo cave diving deaths that were caused by running out of gas and by getting lost (one sometimes leading to the other). Would the diver not have made the wrong turn if his buddy was there to say, "No, THAT way!"

I know I have situational awareness problems in caves that are fairly bad at 100 feet on Nitrox (which is why I don't go there any more). I have failed to mark jumps, and have passed at least one T without recognizing it. In each case, my teammates corrected my error. Nothing bad happened. Would it have, had they not been there? Who knows . . .

 

[pedeseigne]

I think MalibuJerry is spot-on . . . what we do not know, and can never know, is how many accidents are prevented by someone on the dive team noticing an issue that could have led to a fatality, and helping the team correct it before it spiraled out of control. We can't know that, because nobody reports those things, and because it's probably seldom clear how much trouble a given issue might have caused.

I do know of solo cave diving deaths that were caused by running out of gas and by getting lost (one sometimes leading to the other). Would the diver not have made the wrong turn if his buddy was there to say, "No, THAT way!"

I know I have situational awareness problems in caves that are fairly bad at 100 feet on Nitrox (which is why I don't go there any more). I have failed to mark jumps, and have passed at least one T without recognizing it. In each case, my teammates corrected my error. Nothing bad happened. Would it have, had they not been there? Who knows . . .

Yes sometimes when you dive with partner, the buddy will help you. He would save your life sometimes...! When you dive alone, you have not to forget T, you have to be "perfect"...! And when you make a mistake, you have to stay calm and to make the good choice to found the solution. And you would save your live alone...! And it's possible...!
You know, I dive alone and I also dive with partner. I dive alone and I teach TDI course, and I teach team dives...! So I know the 2 way of diving. I've start cave diving 17 years ago. And during exploration dives, usually, I dive alone. Not all the time but in many cases.
During these 17 years, I've make some mistakes. Many of these mistakes were not very important, no dramatic. And I've always keep calm and found a solution. Now, I do my best and usually I have no problem...! So if you decide, you can do evrything alone. And you can be prepare to have good skills in case of problem.
It's easy to demonstrate than solo diving or team diving are safer. Yes, very easy..! You will choose one or the either, it's only a question of mindset.
I believe the 2 ways are good, some people prefer alone and some divers prefere in team for differents reasons.


Best

pe