So what do you do? - PADI QA

[PinkPADIgal]

scuba_drum,

Sorry about this happening to you. You are pissed and feel like you got screwed. You may have, but what are you trying to accomplish? If you want your money back, then deny the charges on your credit card and deal with them that way. It sounds like you are not going to get anywhere at your current LDS or with the instructor. Do you really want their name associated with yours anyway? Right or wrong, it sounds like you are done with them. You are looking to blame someone but PADI isn't the one you need to blame. It sounds like a financial contract was broken and you need to seek justice through the LDS...not PADI.

At this point, take a look at what you have so far.

1. You have completed your KR for chapters 1-9
2. You should have your rescue assessment plan
3. You should have a mapping project completed
4. You should have at least 60 logged dives

If you haven't done those 4 things, pull your books out and get to work. Get in the water and dive. As for everything else, plan on doing it all again.

So, here is a suggestion for you, once you have hit 1-4 above.

1. You walk into another dive center, sit down with the instructor and show him/her what you have done thus far. Explain to them you would like to continue your education with them because it is more convienent.

2. Retake all the exams, this time, by yourself. If you know the material, they are easy and you will do just fine.

3. Do all the waterskills with your instructor supervising and have your instructor tell you what you did good, and what you need to work on.

4. Complete your intership work with your new instructor. Working with a different instructor can give you a new perspective. Take notes and have fun!

5. Once all requirements are complete, your instructor will sign your application, and you can send it in.

Lastly, I would suggest getting a copy of the PADI instructor manual and read it. You will find a lot of great information about standards and proceedures. As a PADI divemaster, you will be expected to also understand and follow those standards.

 

[Colliam7]

No they aren't. They are an entirely separate book.

You're right, and I mis-typed. I was thinking KR answers, and stated exams. My bad.

So i guess the exams that ask for information on ratios and standards are all just guess work then?

Not my point. Moreover, not what I said. I am not holding scuba_drum accountable for knowledge of the DM course he/she is taking based on specific knowledge of the IM. Ratios are covered in the DM manual, and in DM course didactic discussions. Whether a reasonable person, whether familiar with the IM or not, would have thought the 'team' approach to exams, and the self-timing of watermanship skills was appropriate, is another matter. Not disagreeing with your general point, only a specific part.

 

[RJP]

And, BTW, you are NOT supposed to obtain the PADI Instructor Manual until AFTER you are a DM...so there is NO reason for you to know what the standards might be, based on familiarity with the IM.

Actually, I believe the IM is required material for the DM program. In fact the exam on standards/ratios/etc specifically allows you to refer to the manual to answer the questions. The purpose of that exam is not so much to see if you memorized this info, but rather to ensure you know where to find it.

 

[Hoyden]

Actually, I believe the IM is required material for the DM program. In fact the exam on standards/ratios/etc specifically allows you to refer to the manual to answer the questions. The purpose of that exam is not so much to see if you memorized this info, but rather to ensure you know where to find it.

The IM is recommended, not required. Answers about standards the DMs are required to know are in the Instructor Guides for DSD, Discover snorkeling/skindiving and Discover Local Diving which are required materials.

 

[String]

Actually, I believe the IM is required material for the DM program. In fact the exam on standards/ratios/etc specifically allows you to refer to the manual to answer the questions. The purpose of that exam is not so much to see if you memorized this info, but rather to ensure you know where to find it.

In addition to that if the course is done half decently they'll be assisting real students as part of course so having access to the manual with the OW course skills, explanations, standards and etc i'd say is pretty vital.
Not sure how you can train for an assistant role if you don't have the actual materials needed to know what you're meant to be helping teach.
Im also not sure who would enrol on a course and not be totally familiar with the standards so they know exactly what is required of them.

 

[fisherdvm]

I had a nearly identical problem with an ACLS course I took last year from an ACLS mill in Ann Arbor, MI. Barely any teaching, group testing, open book, open discussion testing. Got done in 2 hours intead of 4 or more like it should've been. Tried to file complaint with the AHA, who agreed that standards were broken, as they handed out a BLS card for anyone who paid the money.

AHA said, take the issue to the course director. Who was the instructor's father. They countered that the instructor is being "reprimanded", that all students who got the BLS card will have to return and take the test. Paid me "shut up" money by refunding my course fee. My ACLS and BLS cards were never recalled (I actually took the test myself, not with open discussion like the rest of the class).

These kind of things happen not because of PADI, but because not many students are happier with an easy C-card than actually wanting to learn something from a class and unwilling to file complaint like you did.

I would say, document everything, document all phone conversations, then take them to the small claim court.

 

[jviehe]

If we take the complaintant at face value, there are two seperate issues here. There are standards violations which its PADIs responsibility to investigate, and make a decision on. If you dont like the decision, then demand satisfaction and/or dont buy their product anymore. There are also bad business practices, which is not PADIs responsibility other than maybe them reflecting badly on PADI. Demand satisfaction, and then deal with the result.

SO, basically, what do you do? Continue seeking satisfaction by written complaint, or move on.

 

[scuba_drum]

Well, I paid for everything up front months ago so not sure if the credit card avenue will be of any use, never did anything like that before. Understand, the paperwork I got was literally worthless - not even close to the paperwork I carried around getting checked off as I did things. If nothing else take this as a lesson - MAKE COPIES OF YOUR PAPERWORK. Had I done that, I would be in much better shape.
As always, thanks for the advice... need to figure out what I really want to do from here.

 

[jviehe]

Well, I paid for everything up front months ago so not sure if the credit card avenue will be of any use, never did anything like that before. Understand, the paperwork I got was literally worthless - not even close to the paperwork I carried around getting checked off as I did things. If nothing else take this as a lesson - MAKE COPIES OF YOUR PAPERWORK. Had I done that, I would be in much better shape.
As always, thanks for the advice... need to figure out what I really want to do from here.

Yes, sometimes you have to cover your ass, even though you shouldnt have to. Best you can do is file a complaint and then keep trying or move on. Not everyone is honest.

 

[Melicertes]

Well, I paid for everything up front months ago so not sure if the credit card avenue will be of any use, never did anything like that before. Understand, the paperwork I got was literally worthless - not even close to the paperwork I carried around getting checked off as I did things. If nothing else take this as a lesson - MAKE COPIES OF YOUR PAPERWORK. Had I done that, I would be in much better shape.
As always, thanks for the advice... need to figure out what I really want to do from here.

I always say a little paranoia is not always such a bad thing - it's kept me out of a number of potentially problematic situations in the past. I've also had to learn things the hard way in some of life's little lessons and sometimes the price we pay is, or at least feels pretty harsh, but we'll not easily make the same mistakes again

I am glad to see you seem to want to think about what you really want to do from this point forward. If it's not worth your while trying to recover the costs; i.e. it will drain you of yet more energy and make you feel even more dejected than what you already do, and there is no reasonable chance of much success then I would cut my losses and start from scratch if I had to. Do it again. You will have this experience to draw on when you are the instructor/dive center owner/partner one day and you have to deal with students. Hopefully you will remember what it felt like to be treated like crap and hopefully you'll be a better roll model to your students then because of this experience.

The reality is this: there are unethical and dishonest people out there in the world period (.) The question is how will you carry yourself the next time you face this kind of situation (not just in the diving world) - do you match, or even out-compete them in unethical behavior yourself or do you recognize the situation from your past life experience (now) and deal with it by creating more value yourself first. I've found that people who do you in expect you to go off your hook when you confront them about it that they have their fists already balled, ready for a fight, when you have not even finished pulling into the driveway/parking lot yet. If you approach them calmly, listen to their story, and make your argument calmly and respectfully (without threats - those don't do much good if you're expecting cooperation), you'll likely catch them so off guard and uncertain of how to deal with you that you often get much more out of them than what you bargained for. Besides, even if you walk out there still feeling stiffed, you should feel a lot more empowered about how you dealt with it than what you would have going in there with an attitude of righteous (and perhaps deserved) anger and resentment.

I really hope you can find a way to walk away from this with a resolute dedication to tackling this course with perhaps someone else and doing the best you know you can do legitimately - you'll be one of those DM's who earned their qualification and that will show very quickly when you dive with people.

If you're ever down in Orange County (CA) area and you're looking for a dive buddy give me a pm.