Smoking weed on liveaboard

[mgmonk]

Drinking skiers who end up dead do not require others to risk their lives in a recovery effort and unless they shut down all the lifts people can ski around the body. Grab a snowmobile, a sled, scoop and go. A liveaboard would likely have to return to port and/or end diving for other passengers who paid for the trip. I used to ski and had a some close calls with drunks on the hills. You just watched until they fell and were escorted off the property by the ski patrol. They were also pretty easy to avoid.

I can't believe this is still going on... wow.

As for the above (and if you read my earlier posts, you'll note I'm not advocating ANYTHING), I don't think this is a good analogy. While I don't have snow resort accidents vs liveaboard diving accidents at my fingertips, I can think of two anecdotal stories in recent history that contradicts the above.

The saddest story ended in several deaths after a tourist fell into a sinkhole in Mammoth, CA. At least one, if not two, Ski Patrol professionals died attempting a rescue. From memory, the first went down for the tourist(s?) and the second went down to rescue the 1st. Both of them died on the spot (again, from memory).

The other story was an observation I made at Mt High (where, true to the name, most of the tourists are stoned out of their gourds). Ski Patrol was pulling a kid down on a stretcher when they got nailed by some fast boarders (sobriety unknown).

So, the point is that the boat would have to return for an injury, whereas the mt resort can operate around the incident. True, but unless all forms of mind altering or health altering substances are banned (alcohol, tobacco), then the boat is ALWAYS going to operate with the potential to return to port for a reason that might upset the rest of the customers (alcohol is legal, you can drink at night, you drink too much, your chances of DCS increase... you see where this is going).

The last point seems to me, to be the key on what makes this thread keep going. It's the one point that seems to polarize people the most. Not "do you toke" (I don't), but "would you put up with smoking on a boat you paid to be on"

The reasons most often listed for no (and many of them are very VOCAL no's) have to do with compromising one's safety and ruining one's trip. Those seem like legitimate concerns/complaints to me...... to a degree.

Now if you refuse to buddy up with a "toker" "burner" "stoner" or whatever the preferred nomenclature, I think you'd be hard pressed to find an argument against you.
If you refuse to go ON a boat with knowledge before that "they" were onboard... same as above.

Here's where it gets more interesting. Some of you have argued that if you found out onbaord, you'd call the police, alert the authorities, tell the captain, etc. Now the argument here wold be either 1)it's illegal or 2)it's strictly prohibited according to boat policy.

Well.... putting aside #1 for a minute. How many times have you turned someone in for dipping below the boat's set floor (usually 30m/100ft)? What about those that engage (intentionally or otherwise) in deco diving on a strictly Rec. boat? How about those that come up with less than the minimum bar/psi or those that exceed the max time? All of those are EXPLICITLY part of the contract that you sign (either the PADI safe diving practices or boat's version of same or both). Would you cancel your trip if nothing went wrong? Would you alert the dive-op/boat master? These issues would be relevant in any country on any boat (excluding, obviously boats that are private and/or tech boats... I'm talking about people who violate diving rules that are established by that theoretical company on that theoretical boat)

As for the first issue, that of legality. To my knowledge, even in countries where drug laws are minimal or de-criminalized, there would be no acceptable legal arguments for using drugs for recreational purposes on a dive trip. Those with medical exemptions would be in a grey area, I suppose. Does a CA medical marijuana card give you the right to smoke on a CA dive boat? Probably not, due to federal laws. However, put that aside, and you still have to step back and wonder if you're using a balanced argument to claim legality as your main point. For example, would you turn in a customer (to the dive op, boat, authorities, etc.) for engaging in a misdemeanor? Felony? What about a non-violent misdemeanor such as misuse of prescription medication? That could include something as benign as taking a single vicoden that someone gave you after the last dive of the day because of a shoulder injury unrelated to the trip/diving. What if you can't sleep and you are offered a valium or xanex or ambien by a companion? What if you are diving in a Muslim country and you observe sodomy? If you see someone abuse the "honor system policy" and only mark one soda when they grabbed two (it's a big family, they brought 5 kids, they're spending loads of money, it's only ONE soda)?

I think that many of the posts here have been very passionate, but I wonder how many of them are well thought out. On either side. Clearly, those advocating illegal drug use on a boat or anywhere have a much larger burden to bear- argument wise, so I'm not concentrating on them. They have much looser ground to stand on, so I find it easy to poke holes in those posts. I'd like to hear from the rest of you, though.

Originally, this post (and my replies) was about the REALITY of "toking" on a liveaboard.
I still say that respect for culture, discretion, and making sure that you are only diving with people aware of your compromised/enhanced (depending on where you stand) state are the main points of concern. To me, it is a reality (sorry everyone who disagrees, but in many countries on many boats, staff and guests alike.... it is a reality not a theoretical), so I'd rather discuss ways to deal with it appropriately.

However, for those who want to get into the dogmatic side, I'd like to hear what you think of the above.

safe diving.... and see you in the water

 

[Wookie]

You're kidding, right? People get turned in all the time for busting the bottom limit (130 on my boat), and violating deco limits all the time, like, every trip.

Why? Because I explain in the boat briefing that the rules are not there to save a diver or keep them from getting bent (I've been bent many times, and except for this twitch...), because that puts me (because of my rules) in a position of liability.; The rules are there because if someone does get bent the boat goes home. If someone gets dead, the boat goes home. And if someone gets stoned (and I catch them), the boat goes to the nearest LE, and the person goes away.

 

[diverdoug1]

You're kidding, right? People get turned in all the time for busting the bottom limit (130 on my boat), and violating deco limits all the time, like, every trip.

Why? Because I explain in the boat briefing that the rules are not there to save a diver or keep them from getting bent (I've been bent many times, and except for this twitch...), because that puts me (because of my rules) in a position of liability.; The rules are there because if someone does get bent the boat goes home. If someone gets dead, the boat goes home. And if someone gets stoned (and I catch them), the boat goes to the nearest LE, and the person goes away.

Actually, no Frank , not kidding at all. Have done all the Blackbeard's, Aquacat, Nekton's , and a few Aggressors, and never seen anyone get a dressing down for exceeding the max depth, but will deff. put the Spree on my list of LOB to check out, sounds like you run a thight ship Frank. How do you find out about the violations? Random computer checks? Once on an Aggressor, a passenger was asking the captain how to change out her computer batery , because she locked it out due to deco violation, and he kept her out of the water for 2 days, other than that , no one have I seen reprimanded for dive profile in over 40 LOB's (not to say that this could not have been done on the down low). No one ever put off the boat though. One of our Nekton trips in the Cayman's was cut a day short due to a bent diver.

 

[Skydiver1]

Back from my liveaboard, great experience and very exhausting, especially trying to keep some of the conversations flowing with the chronic alcohol drinkers. One guy always had a beer in his hand from 6pm until bedtime. I'm glad he didnt suffer from DCS with all that dehydration

I was alarmed that my room mate had heart medication. I did buddy with him, but was a bit nervous whenever we hit a strong head-on current and had to start finning hard!

The issue of the safety of various prescription medications (cardiac, etc) and diving is something I hope to hear alot more about over the coming years. I also think it strange that DIR/GUE chooses preclude participants on the basis of smoking alone while ignoring a whole other raft of medical conditions which could be considered as dangerous.

 

[vladimir]

Back from my liveaboard, great experience and very exhausting, especially trying to keep some of the conversations flowing with the chronic alcohol drinkers. One guy always had a beer in his hand from 6pm until bedtime. I'm glad he didnt suffer from DCS with all that dehydration

Dehydration is frequently cited here as a major risk factor in DCS--it is not. (What it may be, however, is one of the major risk factors that we can control on the surface.)

I was alarmed that my room mate had heart medication. I did buddy with him, but was a bit nervous whenever we hit a strong head-on current and had to start finning hard!

Perhaps you missed being self-medicated with marijuana. If you are prone to anxiety, Xanax has the advantage of being legal with a prescription.

I also think it strange that DIR/GUE chooses preclude participants on the basis of smoking alone while ignoring a whole other raft of medical conditions which could be considered as dangerous.

As I understand it, GUE, like every other agency, requires a doctor to okay participation among those with conditions deemed risky. It takes the further step of banning smokers. To be consistent, they should ban the obese as well, in my opinion, as that is another condition that is presumably under the control of the diver (yes, there is a miniscule percentage of obesity due to thyroid conditions). In contrast, hypertension, for example, might not be under the control of the diver without medication.

 

[Skydiver1]

Perhaps you missed being self-medicated. If you are prone to anxiety, Xanax has the advantage of being legal with a prescription.

Unlikely, I havent smoked in a while. A feeling of nervousness does not equate with the psychological condition of anxiety - we dont have to sedate all our natural emotions with drugs in spite of what big pharma companies say. And in any case, I wouldnt advocate mixing a drug like xanax or valium with the intention of it's effect being active during a dive.

In relation to doctors signing off patients, I know of one doctor in my town who writes prescriptions for whatever junkies ask him to prescribe. He has done a course in dive medicine and I doubt his sign-offs while legal are in anyway robust. Aside from the example of that doctor which is a bit extreme, I would be dubious in buying into the suggestion and yet to be convinced that it's safe (within normal acceptable diving risk) for someone to dive because they have passed a medical examination. How many divers do we unfortunately see in the accidents and incidents forum with preexisting conditions which contributed to the event and who have presumably been signed off as fit to dive. I wonder does the dive community just turn a blind eye to divers taking these medications because it doesnt want to be seen to be guilty of nannyism, and also these conditions are so prevalent and would impact hugely on business.

It's difficult to say smoking is under the control of the diver. Nicotine is a highly addictive and many smokers want to quit, but can't.

 

[mgmonk]

You're kidding, right? People get turned in all the time for busting the bottom limit (130 on my boat), and violating deco limits all the time, like, every trip.

Why? Because I explain in the boat briefing that the rules are not there to save a diver or keep them from getting bent (I've been bent many times, and except for this twitch...), because that puts me (because of my rules) in a position of liability.; The rules are there because if someone does get bent the boat goes home. If someone gets dead, the boat goes home. And if someone gets stoned (and I catch them), the boat goes to the nearest LE, and the person goes away.

I'm not kidding, nor do I think you're kidding. Did at some point I put on a clown nose?
You think that your operation out of FL has the same or similar standards to those in Indonesia, Malyasia, Burma Banks, Thailand, Mexcio,........ I'm just naming places where I have first hand experience with overnight or long range boat diving.

I believe the OP never limited the query to any particular nation. The idea was for a back and forth from a broad spectrum, no? So, I'm very much not kidding, and I hope that people can speak freely about the reality (for better or worse) about what goes on in the dive industry as a whole.

 

[hootowl]

Actually, no Frank , not kidding at all. Have done all the Blackbeard's, Aquacat, Nekton's , and a few Aggressors, and never seen anyone get a dressing down for exceeding the max depth, but will deff. put the Spree on my list of LOB to check out, sounds like you run a thight ship Frank. How do you find out about the violations? Random computer checks? Once on an Aggressor, a passenger was asking the captain how to change out her computer batery , because she locked it out due to deco violation, and he kept her out of the water for 2 days, other than that , no one have I seen reprimanded for dive profile in over 40 LOB's (not to say that this could not have been done on the down low). No one ever put off the boat though. One of our Nekton trips in the Cayman's was cut a day short due to a bent diver.

I have made a trip on the Spree and our computers were checked by the divemaster upon exiting the water each and every time. And yes, Frank does run a tight ship

 

[redacted]

You could always try the Rhine River Live-a-Board out of Amsterdam. You won't see much but who cares?

 

[phillybob]

Maybe it's seeing all the innocent people being killed over it in this country that has me unconvinced that it "harms no one". As for being reformed, nope just common sense. Here it's illegal. As an instructor I would reject a student if I found out they were using and if they had already started the class when they showed up the next time they'd be told they were done and to get out before the cops removed them. Use of mind altering substances and diving do not mix. That kind of judgment and attitude gets people kicked out of my classes.