Small incident, but wondering....

[MikeFerrara]

3. keep in mind that the longer you spend floating on a current without a line, the
further you are going to get from the boat. the further you are from the boat, the
harder it will be for them to find you. i will prioritize surfacing and deploying my sausage to doing a safety stop, especially if the safety stop is not "mandatory."
if it is mandatory, i would cut it down. sorry, that's just me. i don't want to get lost
at sea, and in a strong current, it doesn't take much.

and remember... keep on diving!

That's why you deploy your surface marker from depth.

 

[MB]

Sounds like you made some good choices, and a couple of common learner mistakes. Upon reflection, you did learn from this experinece, altho very little of the learning was intended.

1. If you pay for instruction, you should expect to be taught something. Why that doesn't happen is a mystery to me. If you just wanted to buy a weird UW "experinece" you wouldn't need an instructor for that. I read about instructors who aren't present, who don't teach, and who don't guide, who don't lead far too often.

2. You are guilty of assuming that the dive operation actually knew what they were doing, and that you could trust their judgement & procedures. So sad for you to learn that you cannot make that assumption.

3. Altho nobody actually taught you this, and it clearly wasnot a targeted objective of the class, you learned a lot about how to operate within a buddy system. No more assumptions - make things explicit before you dive.

4. Also not an intended outcome, you did come to a point when you realized that this scene stinks. When that hit, you made good choices, relied on yourself, took control, ascended slowly, made a good safety stop, etc.

So, some good learning occured. Unfortunately, it was in spite of your instructor, not because of him/her. I'm glad you are self aware and reflective, and have learned from this.

 

[hantzu701]

What...so they can finish you off?

I wouldn't dive with them at all and I sure wouldn't pay them.

hear, hear!

It might be hard to pass up on another "free" dive, but everything u described was a CF. Shouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

[love2godeep]

I woke up early this morning thinking about this whole thing. I can see there are a few more clarifications to make:

1. The DM did do a pre-dive briefing, instructing us to all meet at the bottom and then drift as a unit, so the boat could follow our bubbles.

2. However, the personal briefing she gave me was on Fish ID (another module I was taking), and not on Deep Diving. I didn't realize that this was going to be considered my Deep Dive until after the fact.

3. The DM was aware that I had had trouble with my ears; before the dive she asked me how they were doing, and I said they felt fine. As I think about it, shouldn't she, as the dive professional, have been more aware than me that something might go wrong there? I mention it because we all agree that I should have told her that I might have trouble with my ears; but on second thought, she should have told me!!

4. I am asking the dive op if this gal is a dive instructor. In any case, I feel that the real onus is on the dive op and not on the girl, to send her out with with 4 other divers (including 2 newbies) while trying to do my AOW cert dives. She would naturally have felt the most concern for getting the two newbies down safely. I had dived with her before and she knew I was competent.

4. Having said that, I still think it was an error in judgment to take us down in that current without a line. (They were very aware that there was an unusually strong current, and in fact told us so.) The DM and the captain debated it quite a while before deciding to go ahead.

5. Wasn't it against PADI recommendations to take the girl who hadn't dived since her cert a year ago down to 80+ feet for a drift dive in strong current?

6. Well, I'm sure this kind of thing happens all over the place--I've had my share of dive ops that took big chances. But I actually researched this place ahead of time here on SB, and it had the best recommendations of all the places on the island. What does that say for the other establishments?

Winton, you wondered if the dive op asked me any questions about my skill level, #of dives, etc. before assigning me to this instructor (DM?) Actually, they didn't. I did make a point to tell the girl about my experience before our first dive. (About 25 dives, which included boat, drift, deep, night, and wall diving.) I told her my reason for taking the course was not to get the AOW card in my hot little hand, but to increase my knowledge and awareness; to become a better diver.

 

[SueMermaid]

Your instructor chastised you for surfacing when you found yourself alone, AND for making a safety stop? What instructor's course did she take? I would hope she would have learned from the scare she had, but I have doubts about that.
Yes, you might have mentioned your slow ears to her, but it is not your fault that she dropped you and descended without you.

I find this chain of events to be appalling. There is something to be said for taking responsibility for yourself, and yes, you should have confirmed a buddy before you went in the water, but you were a student, paying for a class.

And let this be a learning experience or you: You are ultimately responsible for your own safety, even if you are in a class with a supposed trained professional. As far as I am concerned, you did the right things.

 

[love2godeep]

Your instructor chastised you for surfacing when you found yourself alone, AND for making a safety stop? What instructor's course did she take? I would hope she would have learned from the scare she had, but I have doubts about that.

I wouldn't say she "chastised" me. She was pretty upset, of course. She sat down with me and told me that I shouldn't have done the safety stop--that she hadn't done the SS with the group. (She went up to look for me; didn't see me and went back down and took them all up without a SS. Good thing she found them, huh?)

Then she said, "You did at least go down to 90 feet, didn't you?" I said no; when I realized the group was gone, I tried for a couple minutes to catch them, and then just surfaced.

As for mentioning my "slow ears," to her, I don't usually have slow ears. They are usually fine. This was something unexpected. See above (we posted at the same time.)

Thanks, everyone, for the good input. As usual, I seem to be learning more now than on the dive!

 

[MikeFerrara]

I woke up early this morning thinking about this whole thing. I can see there are a few more clarifications to make:

1. The DM did do a pre-dive briefing, instructing us to all meet at the bottom and then drift as a unit, so the boat could follow our bubbles.

I can't over stress the importance of staying together during the entire dive especially the descent. This meet at the bottom stuff is total crap and is proof of the instructors total ignorance on the subject of buddy/team diving.

2. However, the personal briefing she gave me was on Fish ID (another module I was taking), and not on Deep Diving. I didn't realize that this was going to be considered my Deep Dive until after the fact.

While an instructor or team leader might also lead the re-dive briefing the whole team participates and it isn't over until all team members are satisfied and have had their say.

3. The DM was aware that I had had trouble with my ears; before the dive she asked me how they were doing, and I said they felt fine. As I think about it, shouldn't she, as the dive professional, have been more aware than me that something might go wrong there? I mention it because we all agree that I should have told her that I might have trouble with my ears; but on second thought, she should have told me!!

Since you were part of the dive you had some responsibility also. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some guidance from the instructor. That's what they're getting paid for.

4. I am asking the dive op if this gal is a dive instructor. In any case, I feel that the real onus is on the dive op and not on the girl, to send her out with with 4 other divers (including 2 newbies) while trying to do my AOW cert dives. She would naturally have felt the most concern for getting the two newbies down safely. I had dived with her before and she knew I was competent.

Why is it that people do more research and excersize more care in buying a loaf of bread than they do picking a dive instructor?

It's your education and your life. See to it as you see fit.

4. Having said that, I still think it was an error in judgment to take us down in that current without a line. (They were very aware that there was an unusually strong current, and in fact told us so.) The DM and the captain debated it quite a while before deciding to go ahead.

Probably

5. Wasn't it against PADI recommendations to take the girl who hadn't dived since her cert a year ago down to 80+ feet for a drift dive in strong current?

You could say that

6. Well, I'm sure this kind of thing happens all over the place--I've had my share of dive ops that took big chances. But I actually researched this place ahead of time here on SB, and it had the best recommendations of all the places on the island. What does that say for the other establishments?

I don't think your situation is unique.

They may have been recommended but on the basis of what?

Winton, you wondered if the dive op asked me any questions about my skill level, #of dives, etc. before assigning me to this instructor (DM?) Actually, they didn't. I did make a point to tell the girl about my experience before our first dive. (About 25 dives, which included boat, drift, deep, night, and wall diving.) I told her my reason for taking the course was not to get the AOW card in my hot little hand, but to increase my knowledge and awareness; to become a better diver.

Just as a point of reference I don't conduct any training with any student without a skill assessment first. How the hell fo you continue some ones training without knowing what they can do now?

I don't do 100 ft dives with any one without having prior knowledge of their skill level and I sure won't do it with a student.

 

[Diver0001]

....snip....

Just as a point of reference I don't conduct any training with any student without a skill assessment first. How the hell fo you continue some ones training without knowing what they can do now?

Maybe a little bit on a tangent but I thought it was normal to do a skills assessment before the AOW. Where I assist we do a full scuba review before AOW and before Rescue. I always assumed this was just part of the course .... What do most people do?

R..

 

[MikeFerrara]

Maybe a little bit on a tangent but I thought it was normal to do a skills assessment before the AOW. Where I assist we do a full scuba review before AOW and before Rescue. I always assumed this was just part of the course .... What do most people do?

R..

PADI of course requires the instructor to make sure that a student has the requisite skills and knowledge before continueing training. Prior to AOW they recommend a scuba review. I use my own review which is a little different which even with PADI you're free to do.

From what I see and hear though there are lots of instructors who just jump into AOW and often even put the deep dive first. I don't know if I'd say that most do it that way but it certainly isn't rare either.

I really think we have a lot of dive instructors who just aren't very experienced. I know that I was in that boat. We believe that diving is as safe as bowling just as we were taught until we see for ourselves that it just isn't so. They just don't respect the fact that while the chances of a real problem may be small the consequences can be extremely severe.

The "all fun and games" attitude that they use to sell diving just scares me half to death. Diving can be done "safely". If I didn't believe that I wouldn't dive and I sure wouldn't have started my family diving. That safety though is dependant on knowing how to do it. Like anything else once you learn how it's easy and the risk is acceptable. Believing that it's safe without the skill that makes it so though is like playing in the middle of the street. You might get hit and you might not but either way it's not up to you.

oops I'm rambling...

 

[aquaoren]

I wouldn't say she "chastised" me. She was pretty upset, of course. She sat down with me and told me that I shouldn't have done the safety stop--that she hadn't done the SS with the group. (She went up to look for me; didn't see me and went back down and took them all up without a SS. Good thing she found them, huh?)

Then she said, "You did at least go down to 90 feet, didn't you?" I said no; when I realized the group was gone, I tried for a couple minutes to catch them, and then just surfaced.

As for mentioning my "slow ears," to her, I don't usually have slow ears. They are usually fine. This was something unexpected. See above (we posted at the same time.)

Thanks, everyone, for the good input. As usual, I seem to be learning more now than on the dive!

I think you already drew the right conclusions from the dive except maybe being too easy on the DM. Being a nice person does not neccessarily make you a good instructor or prevent you from making bad decisions.
Lets ask like that: If something would have happened to you, would it have made any differnce if she was nice or not?
Whether you will dive with them again would be your decision in the end but I would make it dependable on whether you still trust them or not.
I would have some problems with the trust issue, especially as you noticed yourself it was not only bad judgment of the DM to do the dive the way it went but the dive op's as well to send her out alone with this dive group.
Just my 2 cents
Oren