SLR or PaS

[fpoole]

Generally agree with the above, SWS and everyone else are correct in getting your skill level out of the way BEFORE trying to deal with a camera.
Get a feel for the dive, buoyancy is extremely important as evidence on the example earlier, sinking while fiddleing. You miss a lot while trying to fiddle with the camera so you need to know whats going on and your surrounding environment.

I'd recommend getting a used Oly/nikon/sony on e-bay?, single strobe or no strobe and just start shooting with those. It'll do several things:
- get used to shooting photos (could be you'll like video?)
- realize how important buoyancy is, not banging into things
- get easier & Better results as far as photo-ing thing (you can see the photo and enjoy it)
- realize you probably make a lousy "dive buddy" and need to develop awareness of that and what that entails.
- figure out what works best for you equipment wise, processing wise and general handling-wise...

Example, I just got an oly 5050 with the PT-015 housing, don't like it as the buttons are hard to work with thick gloves on in cold water. Also, orginally purchased for "Natural Light" shots and al ready I'm looking for a single stobe to add. Which leads me down the path to an Ikelite but not sure my SB105 can connect to the outside plug...
So all that to say, there's always something to "Move up to"... so start with something simple, easy to learn and will give good results while maintaining your diving skills. heheh.. You'll have plenty of time, chances to upgrade, but this way you'll know MORE of what you would want...

Hope that helps...

ps. That e-bay listing for the 5050 with WA and Macro lens was quite a good deal...
I'm looking at an Ikelite starting at $600 then adding a tray, then probably a new synch cord etc... so it climbs up quickly...

good luck and please post some photos when you get it up and running...

 

[RonFrank]

US$6000 for a housed DSLR, wide angle & macro, single strobe & case. Medium quality on all items.

All the best, James

While the D70 is certainly capable of GREAT photo's, I'd not consider the D70 a *medium* range SLR. Until one get's into the 1d or d1 series Nikon or Canon's one is not getting the pro grade build, not that I believe this is necessary for UW shooting for most.

Another thing to mention is that the 65mm range macro lenses are as good as it get's, and they are not that expensive. Of course that is all relative as not that expensive is still $500.

 

[ssra30]

The UW digital housing vendors may not like this, you could save a bunch of money by doing a bit of research. Look into ebay and find an Ikelite housing for a FILM housings, be it for a film Rebel or any other Canon, Nikon SLR. I have seen them on ebay for as low as $50 for the housing, viewfinder add-on, dome port and flat ports! Now it my take a little modification and you may not get all the "digital" control buttons, but then you really do not need all those buttons in the first place! The important ones are the shutter and aperture controls, maybe the focus control if you have manual focus lenses.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4703&item=5560396074&rd=1

These Ikelite UW SLR film housings kept the camera dry, just as well as the new digital housings. While you are in ebay look around for a used Ikelite strobe, around $100 or less. This is a much better option than starting off with a P&S in a housing, since you have the Digital Rebel in the first place. If anything you can still use the ports on a digital Ikelite housing if you go in that direction.

Good Luck

I am just curious, since I don't have any experience with Ikelite film SLR housing and Canon camera at all but looking at my divebuddy's Sea and Sea NX80 housing for Nikon F80, there is no way I could really modify it to work with Nikon D70 camera, not only that all dials and buttons are in the wrong place, even mounting the camera properly so that the lens and port would line up properly for the zoom gear or manual focus to work or viewfinder to line up properly won't be easy. May be Canon body is a lot more similar than Nikon?

However I think nowaday that Canon D20 is out and it is quite a bit better, there may be used Canon Digital housing available at a reasonable deal.

 

[f3nikon]

I am just curious, since I don't have any experience with Ikelite film SLR housing and Canon camera at all but looking at my divebuddy's Sea and Sea NX80 housing for Nikon F80, there is no way I could really modify it to work with Nikon D70 camera, not only that all dials and buttons are in the wrong place, even mounting the camera properly so that the lens and port would line up properly for the zoom gear or manual focus to work or viewfinder to line up properly won't be easy. May be Canon body is a lot more similar than Nikon?

However I think nowaday that Canon D20 is out and it is quite a bit better, there may be used Canon Digital housing available at a reasonable deal.

Thats correct, you will need the larger Ikelite housing for the D70 because the bottom end of the D70 is much wider, in ref. to the lens. remember the key element is the lens fitting the housing port. This will setup the aperture gear and focus ring, all that is needed is to redrill or make an L shape camera bracket for the camera and bend the shutter release button to line up with the cameras shutter button. See the pictures below:

 

[RonFrank]

IF I'm looking to get into uw photography, and I've had experience with a PaS canon which is now useless to me since I'm looking to take quality pictures, should I save and just get an SLR or take my time and get an Olympus 5060 or something first. I would probably get a DS-125 strobe so I could use it on a future SLR. I heard the D70 is a good "budget" SLR. I was willing to spend like 1800 or something on a 5060 setup. How much would various SLR setups cost me? (specifically)

When most people on the net ask advice about photo equipment, they don't bother to provide the key thing people NEED to provide good answers, and that is what R YOUR goals with the final image. It's NOT about capture, equipment, or really much of anything else BUT the final output...

Web displays to impress friends, poster prints to sell at Wall Mart, High quality archival prints framed/matted as ART... WHAT?

IMO, one can get VERY good shots with todays PnS camera's given some technique, composition, and UW a strobe in many situations. But today's little digital marvels are VERY capable, and just because it's a Canon S70 does NOT mean that in the hands of a good photographer it's not an EXCELLENT way to produce results even at a professional level in some area's.

DSLR's provide speed, and better focus control. The strobe will limit speed, however focus lag in the PnS's are their biggest liability. Along those lines ISO performance is excellent in DSLR's with usable ISO's of 1600, not so much with PnS which generally are OK at 400, and either don't offer faster settings, or if they do, they are mostly useless.

HOWEVER, I've seen AWESOME resuts from the 5050/5060 which proves that it's not all about equipment, and more about who is using it.

Another big advantage of the DSLR is that the sensor size is larger...much larger. This is why ISO performace (noise) is so much better vs. PnS, and also those larger pixels make for better image quality.

Others have discussed downsides of DSLR's, mainly expense and size. IMO you need to judge your purchase price against the final goal. If it's just shooting for memories, and fun, then I'd suggest something a bit less expensive vs. a DSLR kit with a dedicated housing that is going to run at LEAST 1K.

If you can not get good results with a PnS UW with good light and visibility in non flash situations, IMO you best look in the mirror as a DSLR is NOT easier to shoot, harder in fact.

Another thought is that Nikon WILL put out a D100 replacement this year. It's not announced, but before plonking down 2k on a housing, you may want to wait and see (Oct announcement is my guess) what the next generation of Nikon DSLR will be.

Canon just announced the replacement for the Rebel BTW. 8 mpix, but have not really looked much at the specs beyond that. 6 vs. 8 mpix is NOT enough to justify a camera decision in a DSLR, and the D70 is one VERY good performing body.

Ron

 

[fpoole]

Another thought is that Nikon WILL put out a D100 replacement this year. It's not announced,

Not to change the topic at all, but has anyone heard of the major differences coming out with it D200?? or about the N80?? more pix?? larger sensor? just throw it in the water and it takes it's own pictures??? IRs them back and prints on a web site...
Now that'd be kewl... heheh...

But is there a link somewhere with the details on the new ones coming out???


thanx..

 

[RonFrank]

Not to change the topic at all, but has anyone heard of the major differences coming out with it D200?? or about the N80?? more pix?? larger sensor? just throw it in the water and it takes it's own pictures??? IRs them back and prints on a web site...
Now that'd be kewl... heheh...

But is there a link somewhere with the details on the new ones coming out???

thanx..

No one knows for sure WHAT the next camera will be (or even it's name) other than those working on it who are under disclosure, but here is MY bet (these will be improvements over the D70 as it rather left the D100 in the dust in most regards).

12 mpix sensor CMOS as in the D2x
5 fps.
Improved CAM focusing system with better cross target zones and more of them.
Histogram that uses all three channels (that would be big).
Larger LCD, 2 1/2inch.

Basically I think it will be a stripped down D2x in a consumer body minus the ability to crop and shoot at a high frame rate as in the D2x, and lacking the seals, robust build, wireless capabilities, and a lot of other pro features that the D2x has (and there are a LOT of small things).

It may not be a better UW DSLR as it will take about 6 months for UW housings to surface, and it will likely be bigger, and more expensive. The improvements other than mpix will NOT greatly improve the ability of UW photographers to capture better images.

Every Canon shooter went Gaga over the 20D, but if the Rebel had the features of the D70 (which it did not come close) the 20D would have been not much of an improvement.

I think people are more into the gadgit love, and forget these things are just tools.

 

[britusa]

Thanks to everyone who provided me feedback - it's just what I wanted to hear about. I got into diving because I love the water, I absolutely love marine wildlife, and I'm a photography addict (notice I didn't say I was good - just that I loved doing it, heehee).

So, I'm going to take it slow using an UW camera - fortunately, between now and my trip to Coz over Memorial Day (late May) I should get in about a dozen dives at least, so that should help me. I also plan on diving the first day or two in Coz without a camera at all so that I get used to the differences between diving there and diving in the quarry's here in PA.

I must say that I didn't really heed some of your advice about smaller, used PnS cameras - I just couldn't help myself (I said I was addicted didn't I?). I just ordered the Sea&Sea DX5000G along with a single strobe setup. Hope to get some quarry practice with it before I go to Coz, but we'll see.

Thanks all!

 

[fpoole]

Well Congratulations Britusa,
You're on your way to feeding the addiction, heheh... gawd help us all...

Looking forward to some Quarry shot photos. Don't have any idea of what diving there is like.. also some above surface shots...

I'm thinking a straight wall of cut cliffs, greenish water with crumbled rocks at the bottom.. hopefully it's better than that eh??

Good luck and keep posting...

 

[RonFrank]

I must say that I didn't really heed some of your advice about smaller, used PnS cameras - I just couldn't help myself (I said I was addicted didn't I?). I just ordered the Sea&Sea DX5000G along with a single strobe setup. Hope to get some quarry practice with it before I go to Coz, but we'll see.

Thanks all!

Post some results with the DX5000G. I'm interested in that camera, but it's a bit pricy vs. say the Canon S70 + a housing. I'd LOVE to see some reviews on that body, but they have been not forthcoming from reliable sources.

Feathers I'd love to hear about are

1. ISO usablity at higher settings 800+ (guessing they are not that good because NO other camera using that sensor has been able to tackle the noise effectively).
2. Shutter lag INCLUDING focus speed (they boast a VERY low shutter lag, however shutter lag is NOT really the issue, rather aquiring focus)

Some good in focus shots, and comments on usability things like flash TTL (I assume it has TTL Flash), changing setting UW, and the overall experience would be great to see even if the photo's are not award winning.

Thanks,