Single tanks, what do you recommend?

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dori fish

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Location
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Hi, i am looking to maybe purchase a single tank. right now i am renting. i was looking at steel hp 120's, and 130's but also want to use them for doubles any advice or reccomendations on what to buy:lurk2::ppd::scubadive::sharkattack:
 
Depends on what you want to do with them. I see on your profile you have 0-24 logged dives. Why do you want such a big tank? Are you concerned with your air consumption? I can tell you, as an instructor, it get's better after about 30 dives.

As far as High pressure tanks go, it really doesn't matter weather it's HP or LP. 120 cf is 120 cf no matter how small a space you pack it into. Which leads to another point. 120's are long. If you're short, this may be a problem for you. Also, if you're diving a 120 and your buddy has an aluminum 80, what are you going to do with all the extra air when he has to come up?

Steel tanks are more negatively buoyant than aluminum tanks. Many divers, including me, prefer this. As far as doubles go, there are training issues which you need to address. You shouldn't just throw on a set of doubles and go diving. There are equipment configuration issues and redundant systems to consider. Most agencies won't train you to TEC dive or use doubles before you have 100 dives, 10 nitrox dives below 100ft. and a rescue diver certification.

Bottom line, if you want a steel tank, get an 80 cf. for now. Later, you can always sell it when you upgrade.

Hope this helps.
 
****** it! Get the 130's. I have a 130 and its great! As far as I'm concerned, when your a hundred feet down, there's no such thing as too much air.
 
So what are you renting? Size, type, etc.

In my view you want ditchable weight and from this constraint you can derive which type of tank to use.

You wouldn't want to use a highly negative steel tank for warm water diving. You wouldn't have any ditchable weight.

If you dive in a wetsuit, you can probably use one negative steel tank but certainly not doubles. Again, with doubles you wouldn't have ditchable weight or redundant buoyancy. You could accomplish the buoyancy with a lift bag or SMB but that's a different story.

If you dive in a drysuit, you can use steel doubles because you have redundant buoyancy.

As you select your tank, you need to consider how you dive (wet or dry), where you dive (cold or warm) and how you plan to recover from a wing failure.

With an HP 100 that is 10.5# negative at the beginning of a dive and a 7/8mm wetsuit that probably loses 20# of flotation at depth, I am pinned to the bottom by 28# if I lose a wing. I can overcome some of it by ditching weight but I take the chance of a runaway ascent. I use a 30# wing so it is pretty maxed out at depth.

A more negative tank would require a wing with more lift. At some point, you can use all the extra air you brought just swimming the oversized wing.

My tanks of choice: for warm water, an aluminum 80. For cold water, a steel HP 100.

Richard
 
I don't totally disagree with the above advice but there is a more moderate view point as well.

If you buy something well the first time you never have to buy it again, and from that perspective buying the right tank rather than the more or less standard, does nothing real well but everybody has one AL 80 makes sense.

There a few very good options other than an AL 80. For example:

1. The Worthington X7-100 3442 psi tank is excellent as is the PST E7-100 (same basic tank different manufacturer.) They weigh only a couple pounds more than an AL 80 (33 versus 31) , but are -2.5 lb bouyant when empty compared to +4.4 lbs for an AL 80, so if you are using lead weights, you can drop 7 pounds compared to what you currently use with an AL 80. That ends up being a net savings in weight of 5 lbs in total weight carried. It is a couple inches shorter than an AL 80 and the same diameter and holds an honest 100 cu ft as opposed ot the 77 cu ft in an AL 80. A lot more gas in a smaller package with better bouyancy traits. The lenght and trim characteristics work very well for all but the tallest divers.

2. The Worthington X8-130 is the same lenght as an AL 80 but slightly larger in diameter (8.0" compared to 7.25"). It is however substantially heavier at 43 lbs. But it again offers 130 cu ft at 3442 psi and its size and bouyancy traits make it ideal for user as either a single or as doubles for just about anyone able to carry the weight, but it is not as bad as it seems at first glance. They are also -2.5 lbs when empty so you are again saving 7 pounds of lead compared to what you carry with an AL 80 so the net increase in weight is only 5 lbs.

3. LP 95's are popular in places where you can get an overfill to 3600 psi (they are normally a 2400 psi tank with a plus rating fill of 2640 psi, where they hold 95 cu ft.) Faber LP 95's are significantly lighter than PST or worthington LP 95's 37 pounds versus 42 pounds, but all of them will hold 130 cu ft at 3600 psi and 95 cu ft at 2640 psi. They are very similar in lenght to a 3442 psi 100 cu ft tank but are larger in diameter, 8.0" rather than 7.25". They also trim out well for nearly everyone and they are -3.3 lbs bouyant when empty, so again if you use at least 8 pounds of weight, you can take 7.7 of it off and still save about a pound and a half in total weight compared to an AL 80.

4. LP 85's are popular as well. They are the same height and weight as an AL 80 but thinner at 7.0" in diameter. They are basically neutral when empty so you are again saving 4.4 lbs in total weight compared to an AL 80 if you need more than 4.4 lbs of lead weight to achieve neutral bouyancy. They hold 85 cu ft at 2640 psi and if you do not get the plus rating renewed at the first hydro test, they will hold only 77 cu ft at 2400 psi - the same as an AL 80.

There are other tanks available, but they are either very large, very heavy, very negatively bouyant, very tall, or have some other factor that limits their utility or desireability to a fairly limited number of divers.

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I am not opposed to technically inclined divers getting into doubles early on. It is not rocket science and they are different with more mass, but they are not overly difficult to dive - unless you have excessively large, tall or negatively bouyant doubles. If you stick with the ones listed above, they are not hard to dive at all.

It does make sense to get some instruction or mentoring to assist you in setting them up and helping you with a configuration that will be compatible with technical diving later on, but again it is not rocket science and is not hard to accomplish. As long as you start out right you will not develop bad habits and the experience will put you well ahead of the curve when you do start taking technical courses. Some will say you need to know procedures valve drills, etc, but in point of fact that can come later as you will essentially be diving them as a large single within the no deco limits and single tan procedures still work just fine if you use a set of doubles on what amounts to single tank dives.

In the vent you do go the AL 80 route, that is not all bad. Double AL 80's are exceptionally stable in the water and make good first doubles. And if you advance to deeper techncial double swith larger tanks, your old AL 80's will make great deco or stage bottles and the bands and manifold will work with any 7.25" diameter tanks.

The old steel 72's also make exceptional first doubles as they are comparatively lightweight, trim out well, have excellent bouyancy traits (about -1.5 lbs negative per tank when empty, but they vary a bit), and are fairly inexpensive to acquire.

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With a large single or set of doubles, there is a degree of increased diver responsibility as all that gas can get you into serious decompression if you do not mind your NDL's and that is the basis for most of the advice that divers not move to a larger single or doubles too soon. But I am big on personal responsibility and frankly, there are times when being really fat on gas is nice.

You also need to consider the swing weight of the gas. A large single like a 130 will have about 8 pounds of swing weight (the weight of the gas in the tank that you breath during the dive, making the tank that much more bouyant by the end of the dive) compared to only 5 for an AL 80. Double 100's have abnout 12.5 pounds of swing weight and double 130's have 16. Since you must be abel to be neutral with near empty tanks at the end of the dive, that will mean you woudl be 16 pounds negative at the start of the dive with double 130's. So you have to offset that with 16 pounds of lift in the wing (most wrap around jacket style BC's do not work real well with doubles) plus whatever bouyancy your wet suit loses at depth - perhaps another 15 pounds with a 7mm wet suit. That large an air volume can be harder to manage so your bouyancy skills have to be much better.
 
It depends on what you want to use the tanks for, i.e what kind of local diving do you have, and what you're willing to spend. As an example, 90% of my local diving is less than 30 ft in 72F water, so I bought steel 72s. They cost almost nothing, they're great on your back both in and out of the water (26 lbs, neutral empty), and I don't need any more gas than that.

I recently bought a HP100 specifically for use at the Flower Gardens where you can't take doubles on the recreational charters, and I want more gas. But I'll rarely use that tank in the local spring ( a little too heavy) and I only bought it because a buddy (couv) found a great deal on a couple of used ones.

So you might think about what your current weighting needs are, how much gas you need for your local diving, and what your budget is. DA's post pretty much lays out the advantages and disadvantages of the different options. Try to buy used unless you're dying to spend extra money.
 
There a few very good options other than an AL 80. For example:

1. The Worthington X7-100 3442 psi tank is excellent as is the PST E7-100 (same basic tank different manufacturer.) They weigh only a couple pounds more than an AL 80 (33 versus 31) , but are -2.5 lb bouyant when empty compared to +4.4 lbs for an AL 80, so if you are using lead weights, you can drop 7 pounds compared to what you currently use with an AL 80. That ends up being a net savings in weight of 5 lbs in total weight carried. It is a couple inches shorter than an AL 80 and the same diameter and holds an honest 100 cu ft as opposed ot the 77 cu ft in an AL 80. A lot more gas in a smaller package with better bouyancy traits. The lenght and trim characteristics work very well for all but the tallest divers.


But the warm water diver (T-shirt) will probably only wear 4# of weight with an Al 80. I wore 6#. With the HP 100, they have no ditchable weight and thus no easy way to establish positive buoyancy at the surface with a wing failure. Rescue is somewhat more involved because the gear must be ditched first in this event. This is sometimes undesirable in rough water because the victim might be better off with a regulator in their mouth. Sure, you can hand over your long hose primary and use your necklaced octo but it just adds tasks to an already stressful situation. I like the idea of just dumping the weights.

I'm really into ditchable weight. It would absolutely drive my tank selection process. In fact, I am deeply concerned about a wing failure at the start of a dive with my HP 100 even though I am wearing a wetsuit and 20# of lead. If I am at depth, my wetsuit will have lost at least 20# of buoyancy and even if I ditch all my lead, I am still not positive by about the weight of the air in the tank. If I lose the wing, I better be able to swim 8# (maybe more) up far enough for the wetsuit to regain buoyancy. That might not be a really big deal but it is something to think about.

I might be better served by an Al backplate instead of SS. Sure, I would have to add lead to my harness but it would be ditchable.

Still, I am using the Worthington X7-100 3442 psi tanks. But at least I am aware of the potential problems.

Richard
 
Personally, I wouldn't buy your initial single tank with an eye toward eventual doubles. Why? Because most everybody I know still dives a single tank from time to time, anyway; we all bought doubles in ADDITION to our single tanks, rather than just doubling up what we had. (Or, as with my husband, if we doubled what we had, we went out and bought NEW single tanks :) )

It would be easier to make recommendations, if we knew where you were diving, because of the exposure protection considerations that have already been mentioned. For dry suit diving, I love 130s. They're essentially as much gas as you can carry in a single tank, and certainly enough for almost anybody to do any dive you can do within NDLs. They trim out well. They're a bit of a beast to carry, but not as bad as doubles! Double 130's, however, are more gas than you need for most dives in the T1 level, or even for most two-dive recreational boat days, and they are wickedly heavy.
 
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