single divers

[Wreck Wench]

NetDoc once bubbled...
what about "in a previously unserved area" or "where" did you not understand? Would the post office be able to identify a "singles" area within the US?

Area is defined by the dictionary as:

1. A flat open surface or space.
2. Any specific region as of a building, city or geographic entity.
3. The range or scope of anything.
4. The measure of a planar region or of the surface of a solid.

Furthermore....let's define "Entity"

Entity is defined as:

1. The fact of existence.
2. Something that exists independently.

So....yes your honor I am going somewhere with this line of reasoning!

So if we take the second definition of 'area' which defines area as a geographic entity and we assume a broader geographic intent i.e. country level vs. state level or regional level and we look at the first definition of entity...then we did in fact qualify under your rules.

Singles do exist which is undisputed and our existence in the geographic area defined as the United States or the UK or Australia etc. would mean that we met your definition for a singles NDI club.

Let's also look at the third definition of 'area'....namely "The range or scope of anything." So again, the NDI request that we submitted had 21 names on it or more then twice the required amount of 10 names. (We have subsequently collected another 9-10 names and the list is still growing...) Now if you subtract out the names from the UK and I think we had one name from Australia then that still leaves well over 10 names from the US which by defination can be 'the range of our club'. And our 'scope' is broad as is our diverse membership.

We have in fact qualified by definition for a NDI SINGLES club based in the US. The rules do not specify the size or limitations of the geographic area served as evidenced by the California Dreamers serving only California and the Deep South Divers serving 7 different states and the UK Wreck Ferrets serving all of the UK. The rules do ask for an area unserved which would certainly be singles in the US.

Now may we have our Singles NDI club since we do in fact meet the rules? Please!!!

 

[The Chairman]

it's going to be really interesting to see how you try to twist "No". :tease:

 

[Wreck Wench]

NetDoc once bubbled...
it's going to be really interesting to see how you try to twist "No". :tease:

Now Pete....I did not twist the meaning of the word 'area'....I merely explained how our request fell within its parameters by definition.

I thought you told us "NO" because we didn't meet the definition of the word "area".... at least that is how it appeared in your post to Walter.

So now I take it you are telling us "NO" cuz you can.... :doctor:

So inquiring blondes and singles everywhere want to know....did we get turned down because we did not meet the defined rules for becoming a NDI club OR......

Did we get turned down because you arbitrarily turned us down?

 

[The Chairman]

because that is what the moderators decided on. We are a team and tend to act as one, even to defending each other's honor. As for my individual vote, only the other mods know that answer. What is said there stays there unless there is a serious breech of trust.

A DIR forum/club has been brought up before... one could argue that they are even more distinct than singles. Yet they must also navigate the waters of our fair board with no port to call home. The clubs were concieved and designed to serve geographic areas. They do that exceedingly well. We feel that the "thing" that sets all of us apart from the rest of the world is that we are divers... the rest is just details. It doesn't matter what our ethnicity, religion, political stance or marital status, we are first and foremost a community of divers.

As for the welcome mat... we already we see many threads with "Singles Only" in the title which makes us married folk feel a bit unwanted. Sure, there are issues out there for singles to work out... but remember ALL of us were single at least once in our lives. Some more often or longer than others.

 

[Walter]

A few points:

There is no hatred for the management of this board. There is dislike and disgust of some of the actions of it as a group and of the actions of some of the members. Some of the mods are wonderful people, some have earned my respect. One or two don't fit those catagories, but in a group that large, you have to expect that. No hatred, my friend.

The Post Office is, in and of itself an unserved area. I suspect it will always remain so as I doubt there are enough "postal" issues to warrent a large number of "postal" divers to want an NDI club. Singles are also an "unserved area." The difference is, there is a need and a large desire of a large number of our single members for such a club. I understood "where" quite well. Where? the Post Office? You did hear from me. My reply was "Something like that <name deleted> and me, we only need 8 more.>" You never responded to say something like that was unacceptable.

There was no demand for the club.

"Pete,

Please set this chapter up on the board for us. Thanks!

Walter

At least 10 members - we have 21, one over double the requirement.

In a previously unserved area - Single divers

We apply for NDI Singles Divers"

This was followed by a list of the 21 folks signed on at that time.

A simple and polite request for you to put the application into reality is not a demand.

I did ask ahead of time to see if we qualified under the rules. We did. There was no rule of a geographic area nor was there a rule of management review. Both were added after you received the application for NDI Singles.

You tell us NDI Singles was turned down by the mods as a group, yet other NDI applications have been implemented without ever having been seen or discussed by the mods a group.

Don't look for hidden agendas, they don't exist. I'm up front with you.

The concept of a DIR forum is not even close to the same. A DIR forum has alwats been proposed by opponents of DIR in an attempt to exile them. I can't imagine why you would even mention it in this discussion.

That rule about not revealing anything from the back room is very handy. You have a broad interpretation which allows you to make decisions without ever giving any reasons. A more reasonable interpretation would prevent you from revealing individual statements (other than your own), but allow you to explain decisions.

There is no anger (on my part) over this issue. There is anger over blocking discussion. There's never any excuse for that. That anger is directed entirely towards pug and the unknown mod who removed the other thread. So far, either that mod has been missing since I asked about it or doesn't have the spine to admit to it. Please let that person know I'd like to know who did it and why.

 

[Big-t-2538]

The line: "It's 5 O'clock Somewhere" has to apply here...

 

[Spectre]

It is my understanding that you were sent a PM at the time of the closings and the pulling of the threads, specifically stating that a PM was in the works when you began spinoff threads demanding answers.

You know better than this. You can't expect a PM in the first 5 seconds from the time a thread is pulled!!!! Sometimes it takes a little time to gather thoughts. YOU KNOW THIS.

As for the rest of this. You all can debate your little loop holes all you want. This is not a court of law. What is written isn't the full definition. It calls for a little interpretation and ... common sense. Common sense tells you that an NDI club isn't appropriate, and it was just a gimmick used to try and force the issue.

Now I've tried to help, but since no one wants to actually discuss the points that I brought up, I'm no longer interested. You may find another moderator interested in debating the nit picky details like what an 'area' is, or you can consider starting your own board, or you can get over it and move on. Hounding and protesting the decision of the moderators does _nothing_ other than piss off those that may have once been sympathetic.

 

[Spectre]

Walter once bubbled...
You tell us NDI Singles was turned down by the mods as a group, yet other NDI applications have been implemented without ever having been seen or discussed by the mods a group.

You tried to do something that was different then the obvious design of the NDI groups. Which would you have rathered, that it be systematically rejected, or that we actually discuss it?

So you're telling us that because geographic based NDI clubs have been implemented in the past without group review, that you would have preferred the NDI idea be rejected without discussion?

Or are you saying that because geographic based NDI applications have been accepted without dicussion [and don't tell me that you know for a fact that there has not been any NDI applications rejected without mods ever seeing them], then anyone with 10 friends and an interest can start a club?

 

[hnladue]

I am disappointed that the singles forum was rejected. Now I feel like I'm not wanted!!! Why??? Because I don't have a family.

One of my biggest fears of diving is who will be my buddy??? I'm afraid to go on a trip.....who will dive with me?....I'm afraid to go diving out of the country.....I would like to have a buddy who I know!!! Someone I can converse with...Someone maybe like Don that I can schedule a trip or even just a day trip with!! I want a buddy I can trust and I feel like the people here on Scuba Board I can trust...at least I 'thought' I could! We seems to have a good communitry here. No Trolls!! At least none that last too long!! I have posted on scubasingles and gotten NOTHING in response....but here I have many friends!! I feel safe that if I wanted to goto TX I could contact WreckWench or Dee and they will be there!!

Yea, all of these concerns can be addressed in the general forums, but with all the chatter, they would probably get lost. Why not have a specified forum to address the issues of those of us who are all by ourselves when it come to diving?? You know!! This would also include Married!! Divers whose partner doesn't dive.... Now by saying 'married' I don't mean the churches defination of Married!!

These are just a few of my 'issues'....

Moderators-thanks for taking the time to talk about this issue, but could you Please PLEASE take a second look and maybe talk to those of us who are asking for the forum???

Thank You!!

 

[Wreck Wench]

Spectre once bubbled...
As for the rest of this. You all can debate your little loop holes all you want. This is not a court of law. What is written isn't the full definition. It calls for a little interpretation and ... common sense. Common sense tells you that an NDI club isn't appropriate, and it was just a gimmick used to try and force the issue.

1. Why was using the rules provided inappropriate?
2. Why would wanting to form an NDI club for singles be a gimmick?
3. Why is it that when we discuss on the board our efforts to comply with the rules and guidelines and precedence that has been set it is called debating loop holes....yet when you ask questions it is called 'discussing'? Am I missing something here? (And NO I'm not trying to be arguementative here!)

Spectre once bubbled...
Now I've tried to help, but since no one wants to actually discuss the points that I brought up, I'm no longer interested. You may find another moderator interested in debating the nit picky details like what an 'area' is, or you can consider starting your own board, or you can get over it and move on. Hounding and protesting the decision of the moderators does _nothing_ other than piss off those that may have once been sympathetic.

1. I answered your first question which was your response to my question as to why we were turned down. You then replied with more questions for me which I said I would gladly answer but asked that you answer my original question first. The reply was the mods said no we didn't meet the rules for applying for a NDI and they said no to the singles forum since our needs were met EVERYWHERE in the forum. So you didn't really answer WHY nor did you comment on my answer to your question as to the value of having a singles forum.
2. I'm not sure what timezone you are on but I had to go to bed eventually last night so I wasn't able to reply to your other questions. So why does that imply that I don't want to discuss the matter?
3. Why is it that when I discuss a point it is considered 'nit picking' and 'hounding and protesting' yet when you ask me questions vs. answering my straightforward question as to WHY we were turned down, it is called "Now I've tried to help, but since no one wants to actually discuss the points that I brought up, I'm no longer interested."
4. Can you tell me based upon the posts so far that having sympathetic mods makes any difference...I've been told that "NO" means "NO" and even if "NO" can't be explained or justified it still means "NO".
5. So what is the value of sympathetic mods...what are they sympathetic too? Perhaps they are sympathetic to the fact that we can't understand the word "NO" or perhaps they are sympathetic to the notion that our culture is based upon questioning the word "NO" or perhaps they are sympathetic to the fact that we are single and not happily married like most of the mods appear to be? Just wondering....