"Sidemounting With Benefits" - Lessons from a newbie Sidemount Diver

[Diving Dubai]

I'm going off the setup pictured on the DiveRite website (https://www.diverite.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Ring1.jpg), so correct me if I'm mistaken, but..

The ring system has more parts than a loop system.

A few bits of metal, yes

The neck chokers on a loop system are simple--they just slip over the valve--whereas the stage strap on a ring system requires tools to install/remove.

Nope, Neck chokers are simply webbing loops - you just slide them over the valve

The neck chokers on a loop system are independent and don't affect the bottom leashes. You can lift a loop-system's tank by its neck choker, but if you lift a ring-system's tank by a stage strap, you can torque or dislodge the strap's bottom loop.

I don't find that at all. if climbing aboard with my tanks, I'll unclip the rears and just have them hanging from my chest rings, the weight of cylinder is supported by the choker

The top clip-in point on a loop system is adjustable. On my Hollis 100D, I've got three options (sternum strap ring, bottom shoulder D-ring, top shoulder D-ring) instead of just one ring.

I use a Stealth so I can't comment, but once the ring bungees are set I've never needed to adjust the front mount

The loop system holds my tanks up and into my armpits where I want them to be. The ring system looks dangly.

This is a disadvantage with the ring system - see end of post**

Snapping on the bungees isn't a big deal. Stick your thumb into your armpit, snag the bungee, and pull it forward across the valve handle. Boom. Done. Reverse the process after the dive.

Can you roll in to the water, into current off a boat and immediately descend?

Redundancy. If either the loop or the choker fails, the other will (literally) take up the slack.

As long as my bungee is okay there's nothing to fail- basic pre use kit inspection mitigates that.


** So the primary advantage of the ring system is that yoru cylinders are directly attached to your webbing via load bearing metal components and it's incredibly easy to clip on the cylinders on a boat, and jump in with no time spent on surface attaching loops etc

Same with walking around a boat with tanks (AL 80 in my case) I've gone of small ribs, clipped the tanks while sitting on the tube, or backrolled off slightly bigger boats. Sometimes one boat requires a giant stride of 8' from the side.

Generally also I've also got a scooter in my hand with it's leash attached.

I adopted ring bungees because it meant I could optimise my rig for my diving - open ocean generally on to site with significant currents, the prime consideration that it should be as time efficient as a BM with large steel and slung AL40. If the system required surface faff then it would be a no go. If you're swept off the site, the boat needs to collect you and re drop you which is a major hassle

All that said, it's not perfect. As you pointed out the tanks don't get pulled in as snugly as loop bungee but since I'm not in a cave, its not an issue. It certainly hasn't been on wreck penetrations.

But with every system whether on SM or BM etc there are always compromises and I feel the trick is to adopt or optimise a configuration that best meets the requirements of the environment. I'd never suggest that there is one perfect system for all, because there isn't - I just like to offer alternatives since its always worth considering different solutions

 

[Cdncoldwater]

Diving my 40/50s is great, but the fill tax can get annoying.

Definitely work out a drop line for that boat. Rigging and de-rigging from it should be very easy and give you more bottle handling practice. The tank will swing at 'anchor' from it, so watch the boat side; maybe have it attach just a few feet down.

What's a fill tax? I only pay by cf so not familiar with this term.

 

[Marie13]

What's a fill tax? I only pay by cf so not familiar with this term.

Small tanks being charged the same cost for filling a bigger tank, such as an 80. I wished shops charged by the cft.

 

[Cdncoldwater]

It's my friend's boat, which I ride on for mostly free (I give him some of the sunglasses I find to help pay for gas). Not a commercial dive boat. He's friendly enough, but he's also usually in the water lightning-fast and gone before I know it.

I haven't really tried the clipping to a line yet, but intended on doing that... and forgot! I intended to do that about 2 weeks ago, but the line was too short, and since then forgot to create that line. I should try doing that next time I'm on his boat and yell "TANK OVERBOARD!"

I'm using 2x AL80s, or AL80 + AL19. 50s or 40s would be great, just more expensive (tank + fill cost).

If using the pony, that's obviously no problem clipping on the AL19 and jumping in with air. I usually top off any lost PSI using a tansfill-whip I made between dives, so using a few PSI from that tank is no big deal.

Faber LP50 tanks are awesome for what you're doing, light on the surface and not buoyant in the water plus at 2700 psi you have 56cf in each tank. Easy to balance and trim as well, been diving mine for 3 years.

Small tanks being charged the same cost for filling a bigger tank, such as an 80. I wished shops charged by the cft.

Wow, what a rip off. My LDS only charges by cf; they also teach and encourage divers to finish all dives with 1/3 psi remaining. I guess I'm spoiled, I can bring in my tanks to top off if I did a quick search dive etc and not waste time on a ****** dive just to get my money out of my fill.

 

[Marie13]

That’s standard practice in the US.

 

[James79]

Wow, what a rip off. My LDS only charges by cf; they also teach and encourage divers to finish all dives with 1/3 psi remaining. I guess I'm spoiled, I can bring in my tanks to top off if I did a quick search dive etc and not waste time on a ****** dive just to get my money out of my fill.

Everywhere I've been charges a flat fee per tank... the nicer ones will top off my pony for free if I'm getting other fills. I think in this case, the norm is what we experience, and your LDS is exceeding the standard!

 

[sprockjohnson]

I suspect the height-difference and/or other factors might make a huge difference here. Strength is not the issue:

• Sitting: Imagine sitting on a flat surface (no bench). Legs are either straight ahead of you, or in the water.
• Standing: Or standing, with nothing to hold onto (no chair, pole, wall, etc), while waves cause the platform to move quite a bit, with you and your tanks moving enough to knock either over if you're not careful.
• Squat: Same problem as standing, except even harder to keep my balance. I'd have to do a full-squat (butt to ankles, past 90-degrees) to get the top of the tank to armpit-height, and when trying to stand, you'd need FAR more strength due to less leverage at a full-squat position, and of course keep your balance. I have the flexibility and strength to do this (with a LOT of effort), and have done it on a stable surface. However, I hated every second of it, being squatted over, clipping tanks, etc and then standing was a nightmare. In the waves, forget it, I'd fall on my butt constantly when squatted, and standing would be quite dangerous.

This is basically the kind of boat I'm dealing with:

View attachment 675750


1) I might give cam-bands another attempt eventually. For now, I don't mind the hose-clamps.
2) I'm not sure how thick cave-line is. I have 550-lbs and 325-lbs paracord, and will use one of those.
3) I like the lunge idea, and can manage that. 3b) Anything I put on the back of the boat has some risk of falling off & then I need to ask someone else to move it after I jump in. However, I could use my pelican-case as a support when shore-diving.
4) Will do. And I'll try to make it as short as practical.
5) Definitely. Only way I jump in the water without a reg in my mouth, is if I have no tanks on me & am neutral-to-positively buoyant.
6) Precisely what I was thinking
7) Thank you!

Anyway, I'll probably re-rig for this setup either today or tomorrow, and can practice on-land & at-home. Mostly seeing that I can easily clip cylinders standing/lunging and lift them.

I dive from an almost identical style boat (21' Yamaha twin jet) with a nice large swim platform similar to that one and it works just fine. We take it up to 30 miles offshore in the Florida Gulf and it seems to do just fine as long as the wind/ waves aren't too big and bad. I don't trust the flimsy ladder enough to try to re-board with my gear on so I drop an approximately 15' piece of dock line over the side tied to a cleat and I have a large brass ring snap tied to the dropped in side.

I just remove my gear, whether it be backmounted bcd with tank, sidemount tanks, or rebreather and slide the rope through the shoulder strap of the bcd or rebreather harness and clip it back to itself while I climb aboard. If it's the sidemount tanks, I have bolt snaps affixed to the tank necks using a circle of paracord, a quick link, and then to the bolt snap and these get clipped to either the rope itself or to the brass ring snap at the bottom of the line and they are then brought up when I'm nice and steady on the swim platform.

 

[SlugLife]

On the subject of scuba-tanks, I'm 100% aware that I would have better experience if I bought 2x 40-50cu tanks, and also bought 2x 80-100 cu HP steel tanks. I'm sure I'd also have a better experience if I poured money into a bunch of other things as well.

The problem is, I've spent an absurd amount of money lately on scuba, and blown well past what I intended to spend on scuba this year by about 3x. I basically went from crappy-old-poorly fit equipment, renting, and borrowing, etc to having about two complete sets of solid scuba-equipment. I don't want to get too personal into my financial details, but it's just not responsible at this time.

I'm notoriously optimizing because I love doing that. My "complaints" are more mild inconveniences or things I'd like to improve, but I'm honestly pretty okay with how things are today. I hear everyone, and I'm sure I'll add some more tanks to my collection in due time, especially if some great deals pop up on the used market.

 

[Marie13]

@SlugMug

Surely you have other stuff you could sell to fund some 40s or 50s. Like ammo. If you’ve got extra, people will fight for it.

 

[SlugLife]

I'm going off the setup pictured on the DiveRite website (https://www.diverite.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Ring1.jpg), so correct me if I'm mistaken, but..

The ring system has more parts than a loop system.

The neck chokers on a loop system are simple--they just slip over the valve--whereas the stage strap on a ring system requires tools to install/remove.

The neck chokers on a loop system are independent and don't affect the bottom leashes. You can lift a loop-system's tank by its neck choker, but if you lift a ring-system's tank by a stage strap, you can torque or dislodge the strap's bottom loop.

The top clip-in point on a loop system is adjustable. On my Hollis 100D, I've got three options (sternum strap ring, bottom shoulder D-ring, top shoulder D-ring) instead of just one ring.

The loop system holds my tanks up and into my armpits where I want them to be. The ring system looks dangly.

Snapping on the bungees isn't a big deal. Stick your thumb into your armpit, snag the bungee, and pull it forward across the valve handle. Boom. Done. Reverse the process after the dive.

Redundancy. If either the loop or the choker fails, the other will (literally) take up the slack.

A few bits of metal, yes



Nope, Neck chokers are simply webbing loops - you just slide them over the valve



I don't find that at all. if climbing aboard with my tanks, I'll unclip the rears and just have them hanging from my chest rings, the weight of cylinder is supported by the choker



I use a Stealth so I can't comment, but once the ring bungees are set I've never needed to adjust the front mount



This is a disadvantage with the ring system - see end of post**



Can you roll in to the water, into current off a boat and immediately descend?



As long as my bungee is okay there's nothing to fail- basic pre use kit inspection mitigates that.


** So the primary advantage of the ring system is that yoru cylinders are directly attached to your webbing via load bearing metal components and it's incredibly easy to clip on the cylinders on a boat, and jump in with no time spent on surface attaching loops etc

Same with walking around a boat with tanks (AL 80 in my case) I've gone of small ribs, clipped the tanks while sitting on the tube, or backrolled off slightly bigger boats. Sometimes one boat requires a giant stride of 8' from the side.

Generally also I've also got a scooter in my hand with it's leash attached.

I adopted ring bungees because it meant I could optimise my rig for my diving - open ocean generally on to site with significant currents, the prime consideration that it should be as time efficient as a BM with large steel and slung AL40. If the system required surface faff then it would be a no go. If you're swept off the site, the boat needs to collect you and re drop you which is a major hassle

All that said, it's not perfect. As you pointed out the tanks don't get pulled in as snugly as loop bungee but since I'm not in a cave, its not an issue. It certainly hasn't been on wreck penetrations.

But with every system whether on SM or BM etc there are always compromises and I feel the trick is to adopt or optimise a configuration that best meets the requirements of the environment. I'd never suggest that there is one perfect system for all, because there isn't - I just like to offer alternatives since its always worth considering different solutions

I basically DIY copied the DiveRite system, with parts/bungie I already have. $50/pair is not bad, but as mentioned in my previous post, I'm trying to slow the money-tap. I'm holding back on critique or dislike until I get more experience and adjust it correctly. Most new things suck the first few times, but once you get used to it, learn a few things, and adjust it to your liking people tend to forget what went right or wrong. I too found loop-bungies annoying the first several days of diving sidemount.

That said, the one thing I am noticing, is it's harder to adjust. The length of bungie is much, much shorter, which means for every inch of adjustment, you're adding or removing a greater percentage of the overall length. Since the bungie is shorter, there is also not quite as much available length for stretch. It's hard to get the tanks snug, without being too tight.

The advantage is to be able to clip, and roll or jump in, and go. I agree with Diving Dubai's point about it being subjective/situational, and not one-side-fits-all.

The one DIY Idea I've had so far to improve it, is adding a short length (4-5 inches / 10-13cm) of webbing, attached to the ring, to use as a sort of "pull cord" to make the rings easier to reach and pull.

I dive from an almost identical style boat (21' Yamaha twin jet) with a nice large swim platform similar to that one and it works just fine. We take it up to 30 miles offshore in the Florida Gulf and it seems to do just fine as long as the wind/ waves aren't too big and bad. I don't trust the flimsy ladder enough to try to re-board with my gear on so I drop an approximately 15' piece of dock line over the side tied to a cleat and I have a large brass ring snap tied to the dropped in side.

I just remove my gear, whether it be backmounted bcd with tank, sidemount tanks, or rebreather and slide the rope through the shoulder strap of the bcd or rebreather harness and clip it back to itself while I climb aboard. If it's the sidemount tanks, I have bolt snaps affixed to the tank necks using a circle of paracord, a quick link, and then to the bolt snap and these get clipped to either the rope itself or to the brass ring snap at the bottom of the line and they are then brought up when I'm nice and steady on the swim platform.

Yeah, I think I need to just actually do the drop-rope for pulling gear up at the end of the dive. Though I've gotten it to the point it's not bad entering the boat.

Exiting the boat is actually where it's most awkward, which is where I think I need the drop-line far more, and just don the tank in the water.

That said, the previous discussion about having a clip on a short length of cord from the top of the tank is something else I want to try. Based on varying diving situations, I like to have options. For example, another type of dive-boat might not be keen about me attaching a rope and dropping my tanks, or severe waves might make it impractical.