Question Sidemount or backmount doubles?

[Celt]

And lastly... a '102' in all-of-the-world-outside-the-US speak that's something like a 15L tank, I think?

There very popular in Europe for what you’re looking to do. And with the right valve you can use 2 regs, so full redundancy. Worth a look. Anyway all the best on your adventure.

 

[Wibble]

It does not. One reg failure and you lose at least 1/2 your gas.

Correction...

You can easily feather the valve -- no backmounter can do this unless they're a contortionist.

Although it's not unknown for a regulator to free flow, normally turning it off and on again fixes it. But if it doesn't, you've still simple access to the gas through feathering the valve.

 

[AJ]

What still intrigues me: backmount seems to be the standard/default. Many of you say that it is (explicitly or implicitly), though to me it still isn't clear why. Just because it's around for longer? Sidemount is still viewed by most as that specialist tool for a specific job.

It's just a matter of view. In the end you decide how you want to dive. Everyone is entitled to their opion, but that's not the same as the only truth. For instance, if you buy a rebreather to do max. 10 meter dives, it's your decision. Others might have an opinion on that though

For me Sidemount enables me to feel really free underwater. It comes imo as closest to freediving as possible with gear. No way I'am comfortable with my doubles vertical head down or upside down (can do it, don't like it). With sidemount I can do all this 'crazy' things without even thinking about it and enjoy myself doing it.

It may be just me, but I like diving Sidemount, what I don't like so much is Sidemount on land or boat. Backmount is easier there. As always, it's a compromise. You have to decide for yourself what's more important.

 

[Cheizz]

It's just a matter of view. In the end you decide how you want to dive. Everyone is entitled to their opion, but that's not the same as the only truth. For instance, if you buy a rebreather to do max. 10 meter dives, it's your decision. Others might have an opinion on that though

For me Sidemount enables me to feel really free underwater. It comes imo as closest to freediving as possible with gear. No way I'am comfortable with my doubles vertical head down or upside down (can do it, don't like it). With sidemount I can do all this 'crazy' things without even thinking about it and enjoy myself doing it.

It may be just me, but I like diving Sidemount, what I don't like so much is Sidemount on land or boat. Backmount is easier there. As always, it's a compromise. You have to decide for yourself what's more important.

I get that, and I agree. But what I hear (and read) is mostly: only go sidemount if you specifically need it. (That's why it seems to me that BM is the default.) My question is: why? Because of the instability of sidemount on land? Because of experiences with divers that don't know how to handle their kit and themselves properly? For me, that last thing would annoy me about any diver, no matter his/her configuration.

 

[AJ]

I get that, and I agree. But what I hear (and read) is mostly: only go sidemount if you specifically need it. (That's why it seems to me that BM is the default.) My question is: why? Because of the instability of sidemount on land? Because of experiences with divers that don't know how to handle their kit and themselves properly? For me, that last thing would annoy me about any diver, no matter his/her configuration.

Personal preference maybe? The question is: why do they think they are doing things right and the other is wrong for doing things different? I don't know the answer.

 

[rddvet]

A reason for people leaving the sport is statements of absolute limitation like “SM still shouldn’t be the primary system for most people.

For one, you’re pulling that statistic out of your rear end. You’ve got nothing to back that with. And secondly, it’s true side mount should not be a primary system for most people.

And again, I was and still am a sm diver of over 12 years now

 

[Cheizz]

it’s true side mount should not be a primary system for most people.

Why?

 

[scubaozy]

Haha I love all your comments.

Just for context/clarification:
1. working on my breathing and getting that SAC rate down has always been one of the first things to work on (next to trim, buoyancy control, efficient propulsion, safety).
2. I am the kind of guy that wants as rich as possible a view on a matter (or a choice) way before I really have to make that choice.
3. Thinking about this stuff (configurations, pros and cons, the gear that goes with it, the research) is part of the fun for me; so even if it's not yet 'relevant' for me now (in the strictest sense of the word), I still find this discussion valuable.
4. When it comes to the choice of SM vs BM, most cons of SM are related to getting in and out of the water; most cons of BM seem to relate to valve drills. Since I will need training and practice in either (SM or BM) and both (donning/doffing and safety drills, air sharing, etc.), that investment is not something that makes me sway either way (my philosophy: whatever you decide to go for, you need to be proficient and efficient at it - this goes for single tank recreational diving in 10 m of water too). For me, training and proper setup is a given, not a variable.
5. In my area and club, I have the opportunity to try out both, which I will definitely do.

What still intrigues me: backmount seems to be the standard/default. Many of you say that it is (explicitly or implicitly), though to me it still isn't clear why. Just because it's around for longer? Sidemount is still viewed by most as that specialist tool for a specific job. I understand that sidemount was developed out of necessity in restricted passages. But I like to look at configurations in the sense of what they actually are/offer in terms of opportunities rather than what they were originally designed for. I like to look at their features and properties, not their history.

And lastly... a '102' in all-of-the-world-outside-the-US speak that's something like a 15L tank, I think?

I think a lot of these type of discussions are driven by GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and are not rational. Your problem description was need for more gas but your solution proposal was narrowed to SM vs BM.
Best approach is to overgrow your current rig and be driven by actual need. If your have an actual need because you overgrown your current gear, you would already know what you would need. If you make choices based on pros cons alone, you might still be unhappy after all. Your current training implies that your most rational choice is to use a single BM, perhaps larger. Next step would be to add a stage cylinder, if you still need more gas or you started getting into multi gas. It is as travel friendly as SM.

 

[Cheizz]

I think a lot of these type of discussions are driven by GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and are not rational. Your problem description was need for more gas but your solution proposal was narrowed to SM vs BM.
Best approach is to overgrow your current rig and be driven by actual need. If your have an actual need because you overgrown your current gear, you would already know what you would need. If you make choices based on pros cons alone, you might still be unhappy after all. Your current training implies that your most rational choice is to use a single BM, perhaps larger. Next step would be to add a stage cylinder, if you still need more gas or you started getting into multi gas. It is as travel friendly as SM.

My personal situation aside - I find it an interesting question to think and talk about. If people would only upgrade/expand their gear choices for what they actually need, then why is everybody diving with a Perdix? Besides all the technical capabilities of that dive computer, it also has a few features that make people like them so much: the ease of use, color screen, options to configure to your liking, customer service...
That is 'deconstruction' basically: looking at the properties themselves (rather than the original need for it) and re-applying those to other/expanded use. Why would that apply to the Perdix (designed as a special tool for a job, but with features that appeal to others as well, who won't be needing it per see), but not to - let's say - sidemount diving?

 

[tbone1004]

Haha I love all your comments.

Just for context/clarification:
1. working on my breathing and getting that SAC rate down has always been one of the first things to work on (next to trim, buoyancy control, efficient propulsion, safety).
2. I am the kind of guy that wants as rich as possible a view on a matter (or a choice) way before I really have to make that choice.
3. Thinking about this stuff (configurations, pros and cons, the gear that goes with it, the research) is part of the fun for me; so even if it's not yet 'relevant' for me now (in the strictest sense of the word), I still find this discussion valuable.
4. When it comes to the choice of SM vs BM, most cons of SM are related to getting in and out of the water; most cons of BM seem to relate to valve drills. Since I will need training and practice in either (SM or BM) and both (donning/doffing and safety drills, air sharing, etc.), that investment is not something that makes me sway either way (my philosophy: whatever you decide to go for, you need to be proficient and efficient at it - this goes for single tank recreational diving in 10 m of water too). For me, training and proper setup is a given, not a variable.
5. In my area and club, I have the opportunity to try out both, which I will definitely do.

What still intrigues me: backmount seems to be the standard/default. Many of you say that it is (explicitly or implicitly), though to me it still isn't clear why. Just because it's around for longer? Sidemount is still viewed by most as that specialist tool for a specific job. I understand that sidemount was developed out of necessity in restricted passages. But I like to look at configurations in the sense of what they actually are/offer in terms of opportunities rather than what they were originally designed for. I like to look at their features and properties, not their history.

And lastly... a '102' in all-of-the-world-outside-the-US speak that's something like a 15L tank, I think?

104 not 102, and it's 17L.

Take a bit of a history lesson, doubles and even triples were actually some of the original configurations used for SCUBA. Having multiple tanks on your back was normal back then, but even ignoring that fact, doubles is a natural progression from single tank backmount. Sidemount is a complete shift in configuration. That will keep doubles as being the standard for a long time yet.

In terms of why sidemount is unwieldy at the surface, it's largely because it's not rigidly attached to your body so everything moves which is irritating when you're moving around.