Sidemount and helmets in open water

[tbone1004]

many of us on this thread can scull sideways, we can all do 0 radius flat turns, and with good technique you can in fact go backwards faster barefoot than with hands. Your references to these animals don't work because they are designed differently. Seals, penguins etc have large front fins, so of course they use them. If you put fins on your hands, it would be a different discussion. Moving 10cm with your fins is not difficult, you don't kick, you scull. If you're fins are touching something, then you can touch the wall and push off of it, we are ok with that, pushing water with your hands is not necessary and is only bandaiding the root problem of not knowing how to kick properly

 

[Razorista]

many of us on this thread can ...

that is not very representative or relevant, don't you think?

 

[Razorista]

...then you can touch the wall and push off of it, we are ok with that, ...

I am not 'ok with that' however. I rarely dive in exclusively 'rocky' conditions, many times fins will not meet solid resistance when they touch something.

 

[tbone1004]

that is not very representative or relevant, don't you think?

you're in the technical forum chief, as you have no technical dive training, you aren't qualified to comment on what you should or should not be able to do for technical divers and bringing up recreational diving in this thread is not appropriate.

Side sculling is very difficult and not everyone can do it, but it can be done, and many of us can. It is NOT kicking, it is sculling, this is also how you create positive and negative lift, and move backwards or forwards smoothly without the surges associated with kicks, and go around in circles without being jerky. If you can't do the above skills, you have no business technical diving, and no, there is no reason to use your hands. If you are turning, you can turn with your fins, if you are going backwards, you can scull with your fins without moving them very far and go just as quickly and just as precisely

 

[Razorista]

I am am not talking about rec divers that have not mastered those skills.
What's not representative is a small number of forum posters, not even representative for the technical diving community.

 

[The Chairman]

I am actually a wee bit past open water classes.

Not if you have to use your hands, you're not. Sculling is simply unacceptable in any of my classes, from OW on up or for any diver who enjoys the full use of their legs. It's one of the classic symptoms indicating a need to take a Trim, Buoyancy and Propulsion class, which is remedial.

Don't bother with a pithy rejoinder. It's simply bad form and a habit that needs to be broken. I don't respect any diver or instructor that feels they need to use their hands in such a manner.

 

[Razorista]

It's one of the classic symptoms indicating a need to take a Trim, Buoyancy and Propulsion class, which is remedial.

I do not think so NetDoc

It's simply bad form and a habit that needs to be broken.

To bad

I never had that habit NetDoc. I am learning a useful skill.

 

[tbone1004]

go take technical training from someone other than those guys. Until then, you have one opinion, and remember that Steve Martin is an offshoot of Boegarts, so you have to go outside of that borderline cult of training and diversify your knowledge base. As of now, it does not consist of any technical certifications, and essentially a single instructor for an open water sidemount course, yet you continue to speak on these subjects without actually having a background in any real form of technical diving. Your points would be significantly more seriously if you actually go and take technical training, until then, you are just spewing what you have read and heard according to the gospel of Steve.

Your most recent post is a perfect example of this where you are arguing against technical instructors, and experienced technical divers who say this is a bad habit fixed in remedial diving skills courses, and saying that it is a useful skill, yet are unable to give an actual example of when it is useful despite many of us telling you it isn't. We have infinitely more real world experience and training than you do, yet we are all wrong because the gospel according to Steve says it is a useful skill that you use all the time, yet none of us have ever had a need for it...

 

[Patoux01]

You guys are just sad to watch... really.

If it's dumb but it works, then it's not dumb. Not saying what he should or should not do, but if he doesn't damage anything, nor is dangerous, I don't see an issue... and AFAIK this has not been dangerous in what he showed.


And as for the "this is technical forum", please Netdoc, open a sidemount section in some other parts of the forum, I'm not feeling at ease here :-(


May I also add to those "this is technical cave ultra kill sidemount you're gonna die" that this is the sidemount board, not cave, so there's no reason to bring rocks to this discussion....



Just saying, I don't really care anyway, it's just giving a bad view of everyone.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... agree with the above ... not everyone who dives sidemount dives in caves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)