Should PADI OWSI be limited in their range?

[chiara]

Having lived through a very painful experience with my former friend, buddy and instructor (you choose the order, we are talking about one person), a thought suddenly came to my mind: should OWSIs be limited to teaching OW and AOW?

From what I experienced before deciding to up and go to another club I can honestly say that the people who went through OW and AOW with him are prepared to dive in almost any conditions (we have dark, murky quarries and little else).

The same doesn't apply to Rescue (I only followed one, so I might be wrong here) and certainly his DM teachings were way below standards.

So he's good enough for beginners or Advanceds, but the further you go, the worse it gets.

Shouldn't PADI allow for some intermediate check before allowing further educational skills?

Say get 150 OW courses and as many AOW, then take a practical exam and then we say if you are ready to teach at higher levels?

Am I wrong in assuming 150 students is the requirement for IDC Staff Instructors?

 

[DiveTub]

Chiara
They already do. If you are after a more experienced instructor in the PADI pipeline then get one above OWSI.
Look for a

OWSI
PADI Assistant Instructor certification or be an instructor in good standing with another training organization for at least six months.
Hold a dive certification for at least six months
Have 60 logged dives that include night, deep and navigation dives
Proof of CPR training within the last 24 months
Medical clearance signed by a physician

Master Scuba Diver Trainer
Hold five PADI Specialty Instructor certifications
Have at least 25 certifications

IDC Staff Instructor
PADI Master Scuba Diver Trainer certification
18 years old

Master Instructor
PADI IDC Staff Instructor certification
Be a PADI Instructor for at least two years
PADI MEDIC FIRST AID® Instructor certification
Have certified at least 150 students as PADI Divers

Course Director
Hold the PADI Master Instructor certification for at least six months
250 logged dives
Renewed Medic First Aid Instructor

http://padi.com/english/common/courses/pro/

 

[Jonathan]

yes but that does not stop them teaching DM. A friend of mine qualified this year and the first course she was asked to teach upon completion was Rescue Diver. At least the experience was a recent memory (Flying Fish candidate) but is that right?!

I guess what happens in my club in the UK is a pecking order. The guy at the top gets to pick the courses he teaches and then delegates down on the line so in effect the OWSI will only teach OW to start with then AOW - I much prefer it that way but then the guy at the top has always taken my courses....

Not that the OWSI's are no good - far from it. Most finished top or nearly top of their IE.

Jonathan

 

[chiara]

Sydney_Diver once bubbled...
Chiara
They already do. If you are after a more experienced instructor in the PADI pipeline then get one above OWSI.

Hi!

This is not a choice in a place not as dive-oriented as Brussels: there are a few higher up in the instructors' hierarchy, but they are not as easily attainable.

Anyway, what I wanted to point out is that an OWSI should perhaps not be allowed to teach higher than AOW, not until he/she demonstrates, beyond IDC and after a few lower certified students, that he/she is ready for it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

As I see it, part of the problem is that many shops and instructors teach mostly OW and get little experience teaching classes like Rescue of specialties. Perhaps an instructor should take it upon themself to make sure they are prepared to teach a class. Perhaps we should give a little more scrutiny to the actual dive skills of a instructor candidate.

I think all the instructors I see who can't dive well turning out students who can't dive well is an indication as to what the problem is.

 

[Batfish]

As a PADI Instuctor myself, and even having done about 6 months working as a DM prior to the Instructor Exam, I did not feel really prepared to teach divemasters as a new instructor. The shop I was working in had a policy to give the new instructors easier courses to teach - my first few courses were all Advanced Open water, then some 1 on 1 Open water and then bigger classes.

I agree that if someone is worried about getting a new instructor, they should ask to see the instructors card which will at least show their level (OWSI, MSDT, IDCS, MI) and cert date.

My first rescue course was like a learning experince in itself.

Mind you, PADI has now changed the IDC to give candidates more chance to practice teaching continuing education courses. My IDC dealt 90% with the Open Water course, so teaching a Rescue course was hard work (especially as it was not taught in my first language!)

If I had the power to change one PADI rule it would be that you must be a DM for at least 6 months before the Instructor Course. Now you can do it 6 months after your Open Water course. I would also like to see the number of required dives increased from 100. Having said that, a bad instructor candidate will not pass the exam. All those who pass should be capable and knowledgable people.

I would certainly recommend any DM wanting to do the Instructor Course to have as much experience as possible at assisting on courses. It makes your IDC and IE much easier if you have a good idea about student behaviour (ie problems experienced by novices), demonstrating skills and you can pick up all sorts of tips from instructors you work with.

If I can refer to Chiaras initial post. I actually feel that the Open water course may be the one which needs the best instructors - you are teaching a novice diver. That is quite a large responsibility. But also it may be good to say that new instructors can't teach divemasters. As it stands you can be teaching divemasters just a few weeks after your own DM course. Perhaps PADI will come up with a new instructor rating - the Dive Master Trainer?

 

[Nessie]

Hi,
I believe, that the skills of an instructor are most important when teaching Open Water Diver Courses. Because ... aargh, its so complicated for me to explain it in English..., well, because when teaching beginners you have to be able to assure them, to be great at solving their problems, you have to have skills that are more psychological, which some instructors just seem to have, but most of us have to gain by experience. Whereas the Rescue and the Divemaster Courses are somehow more about "facts", which any Instructor should know anyway. If I am able to teach the basics of diving theorie, I should be able to teach it at a higher level as well (assuming that the Instructor knows what he is talking about).
Besides that, divers who do the Rescue/Divemaster Course most times know, what to expect from a good Instructor, and will more likely leave the course if they think it´s on a rather low level, while beginners can not compare and usually accept the course as "it seems to have to be like that".
So let´s give the beginners the best Instructors we have (and the others nothing less ).

 

[chiara]

Sunrise once bubbled...
As a PADI Instuctor myself, and even having done about 6 months working as a DM prior to the Instructor Exam, I did not feel really prepared to teach divemasters as a new instructor. The shop I was working in had a policy to give the new instructors easier courses to teach - my first few courses were all Advanced Open water, then some 1 on 1 Open water and then bigger classes.

I agree that if someone is worried about getting a new instructor, they should ask to see the instructors card which will at least show their level (OWSI, MSDT, IDCS, MI) and cert date.

My first rescue course was like a learning experince in itself.

Mind you, PADI has now changed the IDC to give candidates more chance to practice teaching continuing education courses. My IDC dealt 90% with the Open Water course, so teaching a Rescue course was hard work (especially as it was not taught in my first language!)

If I had the power to change one PADI rule it would be that you must be a DM for at least 6 months before the Instructor Course. Now you can do it 6 months after your Open Water course. I would also like to see the number of required dives increased from 100. Having said that, a bad instructor candidate will not pass the exam. All those who pass should be capable and knowledgable people.

I would certainly recommend any DM wanting to do the Instructor Course to have as much experience as possible at assisting on courses. It makes your IDC and IE much easier if you have a good idea about student behaviour (ie problems experienced by novices), demonstrating skills and you can pick up all sorts of tips from instructors you work with.

If I can refer to Chiaras initial post. I actually feel that the Open water course may be the one which needs the best instructors - you are teaching a novice diver. That is quite a large responsibility. But also it may be good to say that new instructors can't teach divemasters. As it stands you can be teaching divemasters just a few weeks after your own DM course. Perhaps PADI will come up with a new instructor rating - the Dive Master Trainer?

Hey!

We finally found something we can agree upon!

 

[chiara]

Nessie once bubbled...
Hi,
Whereas the Rescue and the Divemaster Courses are somehow more about "facts", which any Instructor should know anyway. If I am able to teach the basics of diving theorie, I should be able to teach it at a higher level as well (assuming that the Instructor knows what he is talking about).
Besides that, divers who do the Rescue/Divemaster Course most times know, what to expect from a good Instructor, and will more likely leave the course if they think it´s on a rather low level, while beginners can not compare and usually accept the course as "it seems to have to be like that".
So let´s give the beginners the best Instructors we have (and the others nothing less ).

I don't fully agree with what you say: when I started my DM course I was the highest in level in the club, and probably the Instructor just wanted to have someone at his sides quickly without too much caring about quality.

Not having any real comparison but the DM I had seen in warm waters working as guides, how could I judge?

He's going to pay that, and a letter is going out to PADI tomorrow.

 

[Nessie]

@chiara,
Sorry for what happened, but I do not think that he would have cared more if he had done another course to be allowed to teach DM. Would you tell what "way below standards" was?