Should all instructors really have ALL their own equipment?

[boulderjohn]

because your shop sell those options.... many still don't, and feel it a threat to those that aren't following the system....

That is definitely true in the specific case I talked about--a shop that does not sell BP/Ws will not want an instructor talking that up.

For that reason, my example was a poor choice. I meant it to apply to all gear, such as back inflate v. jacket, hose lengths, fin style, etc. If I show up with an old ScubaPro back inflate BCD and talk about why I prefer back inflation, I can then go into the shop and point to whatever back inflation models they may have as being the kind of gear I would personally prefer. I don't think the student would care whether I was pointing at a Zeagle or whatever else the shop carried.

 

[YoyoSponge]

That is definitely true in the specific case I talked about--a shop that does not sell BP/Ws will not want an instructor talking that up.

For that reason, my example was a poor choice. I meant it to apply to all gear, such as back inflate v. jacket, hose lengths, fin style, etc. If I show up with an old ScubaPro back inflate BCD and talk about why I prefer back inflation, I can then go into the shop and point to whatever back inflation models they may have as being the kind of gear I would personally prefer. I don't think the student would care whether I was pointing at a Zeagle or whatever else the shop carried.

So if it doesn't matter what equipment I own, just if I can sell what equipment is in the shop..... what does it matter?

 

[rhwestfall]

Post 26 needs to be made here again.....

 

[tomfcrist]

Y'all need to realize that some agencies require the student( instructor in training, AOW, DM etc,) to furnish their own gear. It's written in the standards.

 

[aprivetera]

Y'all need to realize that some agencies require the student( instructor in training, AOW, DM etc,) to furnish their own gear. It's written in the standards.

Exactly. But it does not say that you have to buy all the stuff from the LDS. That is just marketing. If you require that, then you should be prepared to make a discount. Marketing has its costs, but the DM should not have to pay them.

 

[tkdgodess]

I don't want to use a single piece of shop rentals even if the brand or style is free. Own your own gear that you like. It shows a level of commitment to diving that renting and borrowing just can't do. Its not a safety issue, to all have the same, its not reality on the beach or boat. Its better to have different, then they realize thats its not all the same and they have to have awareness. I prefer to contribute to thinking divers.

 

[tomfcrist]

Y'all need to realize that some agencies require the student( instructor in training, AOW, DM etc,) to furnish their own gear. It's written in the standards.

Exactly. But it does not say that you have to buy all the stuff from the LDS. That is just marketing. If you require that, then you should be prepared to make a discount. Marketing has its costs, but the DM should not have to pay them.

I agree that you don't need to buy from the LDS, and with that being said the OP stated that it is his opinion that an instructor should have the exact same gear as the students...which is debatable, and as far as I can tell nobody is trying to force him to buy x, y, or z brand gear from the LDS. There is merely a requirement that he provides his own gear.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If I were to require my DM's and DMC's to only use gear that I sell when they already have a full kit the decent and moral thing to do is to provide it for them. If it's a BC or basic reg set they are not going to buy it. I'm going to give it to them. To make them buy it, especially DMC's who are paying for a course, NOT GETTING PAID TO BE A BILLBOARD FOR THE SHOP, there is no incentive or justification in making you buy another full set of gear. If the shop wants you in a Bubba Bob Super Deluxe BC then they should have one for you to use at no charge. Otherwise reduce the cost of the DM course.

If the DMC has their own gear and the shop is making them use rental gear I hope to hell they are not charging them the rental fee. That's just ignorant.

I like Abyss Scuba's approach. Wow, we actually agree on something business wise .

But seriously, if the brand you sell is not good enough to sell itself or you are not salesman enough to sell it because your DM's or Instructors are using something different that ought to tell you something. Like maybe prices too high, gear not what the student wants, or it just doesn't meet their needs. In any case most new divers wouldn't know what brand the instructor was using. Especially when in some classes they see so little of him/her in the pool. Or they are so busy trying to digest all the info that is being crammed down their throats in a short period of time that they aren't even paying attention to the labels.

As for instructors needing to be in the same gear as students? Horse pucky. A good instructor can quickly explain and demo the differences in gear configurations and not miss a beat. I often switch between a plate and wing, back inflate, and jacket (and usually all different brands. Only one of which I sell).

A 5 - 10 minute poolside brief (required by my agency anyway) followed by a clear demo and I've yet to have a student get confused. The similar gear thing is another myth perpetuated to sell the high profit margin goods.

And what really frosts me is when I see or hear of rescue classes being taught that way. Nuts. I had everything from integrated octos and basic jackets to a guy in a drysuit and full north Atlantic wreck gear with doubles and gauge set up I had never seen in my last rescue class. And the next one will have someone in sidemount. I'm getting my SM rig next week .

 

[tomfcrist]

I think most would agree that it would be logical for an instructor to be in similar gear as their students. By similar I mean not teaching OW dive classes wearing a rebreather. OC is OC, the configurations and brands mean squat.

 

[boulderjohn]

So if it doesn't matter what equipment I own, just if I can sell what equipment is in the shop..... what does it matter?

That's my opinion. I don't know many shop owners that share the opinion--and that is what counts.

---------- Post added June 7th, 2013 at 03:13 PM ----------

Post 26 needs to be made here again.....

...which is about one's ability to work as an independent.

The ability to do that varies by location, and the difference can be huge.

I live in Colorado, but I spend part of the year in south Florida. If I were living in South Florida today, I could start working as an independent tomorrow. I certified two of my relatives there in February, working as an independent. I had no trouble because there are so many independent instructors there that the shops and operators cater to them. I could get my students rental gear at a discount at a number of places. I could get them discount rates on the dive boats, and I would go along for free. I would not hesitate to be an independent instructor there.

Colorado is a very different story altogether. We have no really good local diving at all, and we only have a little mediocre local diving. I would guess that 90% of all local divers are students and instructors. There is no such thing as a discount rate for instructors at those sites. In fact, you have to pay an extra rate at some of them. With so little independent diving going on, there is very little equipment rental going on. All the shops that have rental gear have it almost exclusively for their students and for people going on their sponsored trips. If I were to walk into a random shop and say that I was an independent instructor who wanted to rent gear for his students, I would be perceived more as a competitor than a customer. I am pretty sure there would be no discounts. I know for sure that the shop I used to work for does not rent gear to competing instructors, and it does not rent its pool out to competing instructors. That means that if I wanted to work as an independent instructor, I would have to maintain a fairly large inventory of equipment. The overhead would be significant. I know there are people who do it, but it is not an easy road to travel.

Yes, you can work as an independent. Just realize it is a lot easier to do that in some places than in others.