Should a dive op give you your money back?

[Harshal]

That is not an apples to apples comparison. The dive op is asking the OP to pay for the space reserved and not sold to another user - why should a reserved space not carry an opportunity cost for the dive op and thus be eligible for compensatio?

In the case where the dive op cancelled, their liability should be limited to refunding the funds they have collected from the customer. Every company's vacation policy is different, I know in my case, if I end up at work when people thought I was on vacation that is no issue and the vacation days just move forward.

Probably going to continue to annoy people, but unforeseen circumstances do happen and pointing the finger at the "deep pockets" is not the right answer most of the time -- although our (American) society seems to think that is the case.

All my point and I got started on coz, if you look at the few earlier post they are by instructors and dive ops and all of them are asking him to eat the loss and shut up as he screwed up.
That got me started that was not acceptable, yea every dive op has their regulation for the cancellations and refunds, but when they are hard headed that they would not do nothing for customer, that is something as per me it is not acceptable.

We as diver are dependant on them and they as dive ops are dependant on us. It works hand in hand dive ops just cannot have the fine prints that is beneficial to them.

 

[redacted]

Sorry but I had to cnx one trip my wife had to go to Afghanistan and the 240$ that we paid in insurance was well worth it

As I said earlier, there are some cases where risks are higher than most that trip insurance may be a smart buy. Often it is because of known health problems. In your case, your spouses job has her subject to deployments (I assume military). Depending on your service and country, this may well be another of those cases.

 

[medic001918]

I'd have to say take the reschedule or sell your spot on the trip. If the dive operation has a cancellation policy that spells out no refunds after a certrain time, then they're covered. It's not up to them to make any accomodation for you. They went beyond by offering the opportunity to reschedule. That's more than they legally had to do, most likely anyway. To leverage them with the credit card company is highly unethical in my opinion. If they don't have a cancellation policy though, that changes things significantly.

Shane

 

[letsgodiving]

To leverage them with the credit card company is highly unethical in my opinion. If they don't have a cancellation policy though, that changes things significantly.

Shane

Not at all. If they are registered in an Island that falls under the UK or a similar finance and contractual system, they should know that money paid with a credit card can't be withheld in contractual disputes. They have to return any money paid via credit card and then take legal action to recover any losses, which might be difficult from a few thousand miles away.

 

[Harshal]

Shane, as a customer either you or me just coz they have written in fine print does not mean that they are covered. Since 99% of the time those contracts are written by them and for them, they do not cover you and me as customer, so how is that ethical. You can bring up the contract and there would be hardly anything in there that would protect customer.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

All my point and I got started on coz, if you look at the few earlier post they are by instructors and dive ops and all of them are asking him to eat the loss and shut up as he screwed up.
That got me started that was not acceptable, yea every dive op has their regulation for the cancellations and refunds, but when they are hard headed that they would not do nothing for customer, that is something as per me it is not acceptable.

We as diver are dependant on them and they as dive ops are dependant on us. It works hand in hand dive ops just cannot have the fine prints that is beneficial to them.

ITs not that they are being hard headed its policy.....You book a trip with me, I book it with a resort....they have a time frame of which there is no refund....I have to adhere to that....WHy? because I had to pay for your downpayment which they alo require....Alot of you are laying blame on the Dive OP.....Im sure they would love to give the money back and probably tried to get it back and the resort, liveaboard or whatever......said NO...thats their policy...SO to say that the Dive OP should Eat that money, or pay it is just ridiculous....What happened to being responsible...Yes, it sucks they have to cancel...but why should the dive op pay for what happened? Is it their fault she cant go? SO they should get stuck with the bill for the resort having a policy and sticking to it??

Some peoples responses on here are the reasons we have:

Insurance
Lawers
Soooo many Legal Issues


Come on....Cancelling payment because something you cant do, while you knew the guidelines is just horrible....What happened to ethics in our society where we would openly say this is OK....


There is a policy for a reason....Everyone has them.....You dont abide by them their are consequences......In everyones business their are consequences and guidelines......People break them and their are reprocussions....Yes we try to minimize those reprocussions, but they are sometimes out of our hands....this is one of those cases....The trip was paid for...the liveaboard has their money....

Why arent people talking trash about the Liveaboards policy? Thats who set what the Dive Op has to follow???

 

[Harshal]

ITs not that they are being hard headed its policy.....You book a trip with me, I book it with a resort....they have a time frame of which there is no refund....I have to adhere to that....WHy? because I had to pay for your downpayment which they alo require....Alot of you are laying blame on the Dive OP.....Im sure they would love to give the money back and probably tried to get it back and the resort, liveaboard or whatever......said NO...thats their policy...SO to say that the Dive OP should Eat that money, or pay it is just ridiculous....What happened to being responsible...Yes, it sucks they have to cancel...but why should the dive op pay for what happened? Is it their fault she cant go? SO they should get stuck with the bill for the resort having a policy and sticking to it??

Some peoples responses on here are the reasons we have:

Insurance
Lawers
Soooo many Legal Issues


Come on....Cancelling payment because something you cant do, while you knew the guidelines is just horrible....What happened to ethics in our society where we would openly say this is OK....


There is a policy for a reason....Everyone has them.....You dont abide by them their are consequences......In everyones business their are consequences and guidelines......People break them and their are reprocussions....Yes we try to minimize those reprocussions, but they are sometimes out of our hands....this is one of those cases....The trip was paid for...the liveaboard has their money....

Why arent people talking trash about the Liveaboards policy? Thats who set what the Dive Op has to follow???

My only one line reply to this is - what when OP cancels the trip. Why can they just tell you ooops sorry you took weeks off from work but we have cancelled the trip and here is your money back.

The Policy you are talking about are created by OP for OP - so someone has to make some policy which would cover the customer as simple as that.

 

[Illini_Fan]

My only one line reply to this is - what when OP cancels the trip. Why can they just tell you ooops sorry you took weeks off from work but we have cancelled the trip and here is your money back.

The Policy you are talking about are created by OP for OP - so someone has to make some policy which would cover the customer as simple as that.

The policy that covers the OP is "don't go". No one is forcing any of us to go on these trips. Harshal I think you have mentioned before that the T&Cs of these contracts are very one-sided. Yes they are -- you ever read your full mortgage documents (at least US-based documents).

But if you don't like the terms, don't sign-up for the deal. In one of my previous posts, I commented that society seems to have shifted to "its not my fault" attitude and that some "deep pocket" company should always pony-up cash to make our situation better. I think that is crap.

It was very enlightening when I was in New Zealand last month and witnessed first hand that policies -- if you want to Bungee jump; sign the waiver that clearly states you are doing this freely and suing anyone in NZ is highly unlikely. Even retail stores have signs indicating the return policy is not guaranteed unless the product is defective. Basically they are asking you to take responsbility for your actions, which sometimes don't always work out for the best.

 

[jasondcrawford]

Is the liveaboard completely full? In my mind, if it's not 100% full (or close to it), it means they didn't turn away any business to hold your spots. In that case, they should refund you completely and hope that their good business practice results in more future business. If they are booked full, it means it is likely that they have turned down other dives while holding your spots. In this case, I can see why they'd keep your money (that is, if they can't sell your last 2 spots)

 

[Shasta_man]

Still amazing me that people would be willing to lose 5 grand over paying $150 because the odds are good they won't need it. The reason why you get it is precisely that: it CAN happen. It would depend on where I'm going and the trouble I have to get there, but any international trip is gonna be insured. Note that it covers more than your own screw ups. And multiple trips are not going to change your odds of needing it. You could speculate that it would worsen your odds because maybe you're running yourself down and encountering plenty of people increasing your odds of contacting illness. The only thing I can see for multiple trips would be you do so many trips, you don't care about missing one, but that still doesn't mean you want to eat the cost, too.

And Awap, don't go if you can't throw 4 grand away??!!