Buyer Beware Liveaboard.com

[ReadyDiverOne]

Wow, I must say, as a 35-year plus federal court litigator here in the US doing some of the most complicated securities class actions in the country, I respectfully disagree. Unfortunately for the OP, LA.com has a slam dunk defense given that the link was there to be clicked upon in the payment window. It isn't cool or good/ethical business practice, but given the link I don't think the OP has a leg to stand on. Moreover, drafting a credible suit for damages, much less punis, that a licensed attorney will sign is no small matter (even in California). Just my $0.02.

OP, by any chance did you pay by credit card? I once had a similar situation with a sailing company in Greece, where they buried their brutal cancellation policy in a very unobtrusive link that I failed to click on, and by disputing the charge I raised the pressure on the merchant to reach an amicable resolution with me, even though ultimately I knew and they knew that I would probably lose the dispute. LA.com may not want to have a chargeback on their account, you never know.

FWIW, this is why, unless given absolutely no choice (and in that case I think long and hard about whether I want to do business with the company), I always pay with credit card, even if there's a fee.

 

[lexvil]

• I defer to the expert

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

Wow, I'm flattered, pretty classy. Thanks.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I had to read the original post more than once to understand what the issue is. So, if I understand correctly, when liveaboard.com says "The cancellation policy always applies to the total reservation amount," what they mean is that the percentage that is NOT refundable as of the date of cancellation will be that percentage of the total reservation amount, not the percentage of your payment(s) to date.

How can they "not refund" what a customer has not yet paid? That seems deceptive to me.

 

[Clernix]

Wow, I must say, as a 35-year plus federal court litigator here in the US doing some of the most complicated securities class actions in the country, I respectfully disagree. Unfortunately for the OP, LA.com has a slam dunk defense given that the link was there to be clicked upon in the payment window. It isn't cool or good/ethical business practice, but given the link I don't think the OP has a leg to stand on. Moreover, drafting a credible suit for damages, much less punis, that a licensed attorney will sign is no small matter (even in California). Just my $0.02.

OP, by any chance did you pay by credit card? I once had a similar situation with a sailing company in Greece, where they buried their brutal cancellation policy in a very unobtrusive link that I failed to click on, and by disputing the charge I raised the pressure on the merchant to reach an amicable resolution with me, even though ultimately I knew and they knew that I would probably lose the dispute. LA.com may not want to have a chargeback on their account, you never know.

FWIW, this is why, unless given absolutely no choice (and in that case I think long and hard about whether I want to do business with the company), I always pay with credit card, even if there's a fee.

I did pay with a CC but my concern is that according to LA.com the local dive operator received most of the funds. Indonesian banking laws are harsh I am not sure how charging back the funds could affect me when I am traveling through Indonesia. The last thing I need is having issues in Indonesia.

 

[Clernix]

I had to read the original post more than once to understand what the issue is. So, if I understand correctly, when liveaboard.com says "The cancellation policy always applies to the total reservation amount," what they mean is that the percentage that is NOT refundable as of the date of cancellation will be that percentage of the total reservation amount, not the percentage of your payment(s) to date.

How can they "not refund" what a customer has not yet paid? That seems deceptive to me.

you are correct. The 30% +the 3% fee is based on the total amount of the cruise so 5200 not what I actually paid as a deposit.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

Two thoughts: first, I agree with @Lorenzoid, I don’t see how they can apply a refund/cancellation policy to funds you did not pay. By definition, a refund involves the return of funds paid, not some percentage of a putative to-be-paid amount. So this does seem deceptive to me. Even if this “policy” is in the checkout/payment link, I think it’s misleading because you are not in fact receiving anything like 70% of your money back.

So my second thought is that, although I take your point about not wanting to get sideways with people in Indo, I do think you should dispute this transaction as deceptive. I’d be interested to hear what others think but I don’t buy the “we’ve already given the money to the Indo boat” argument. I think that’s likely baloney but even if it’s true, your contract is with LA.com, not the boat and the boat is going to look to LA.com for payment not you. Moreover, the card company isn’t going to give two hoots about whether or not LA.com passed the money along. Again, your transaction, which the card company facilitated and profited from, was with LA.com, not the boat.

In short, if it were me I would absolutely dispute the charge.

 

[Clernix]

Two thoughts: first, I agree with @Lorenzoid, I don’t see how they can apply a refund/cancellation policy to funds you did not pay. By definition, a refund involves the return of funds paid, not some percentage of a putative to-be-paid amount. So this does seem deceptive to me. Even if this “policy” is in the checkout/payment link, I think it’s misleading because you are not in fact receiving anything like 70% of your money back.

So my second thought is that, although I take your point about not wanting to get sideways with people in Indo, I do think you should dispute this transaction as deceptive. I’d be interested to hear what others think but I don’t buy the “we’ve already given the money to the Indo boat” argument. I think that’s likely baloney but even if it’s true, your contract is with LA.com, not the boat and the boat is going to look to LA.com for payment not you. Moreover, the card company isn’t going to give two hoots about whether or not LA.com passed the money along. Again, your transaction, which the card company facilitated and profited from, was with LA.com, not the boat.

In short, if it were me I would absolutely dispute the charge.

I just tried to dispute the charge. As I suspected LA.com covered their ass. Once you check the box that you agree to the terms you can't dispute the charge. Also as suspected my reason for not taking the cruise does not qualify for a refund from either my travel insurance or the CC travel insurance.

It is what it is, I rolled the dice on a shady company and crapped out. Buyer Beware as I said. Hopefully I can save a fellow diver the same fate.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Two thoughts: first, I agree with @Lorenzoid, I don’t see how they can apply a refund/cancellation policy to funds you did not pay. By definition, a refund involves the return of funds paid, not some percentage of a putative to-be-paid amount. So this does seem deceptive to me. Even if this “policy” is in the checkout/payment link, I think it’s misleading because you are not in fact receiving anything like 70% of your money back.

. . .

Thanks. Another liar here. Er, lawyer.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

OP, wait what? Are you disputing the charge directly with your card company? I’ve never heard of being unable to at least start the process much less being told no go at the outset. Doesn’t matter that you agreed to the terms the point is the terms are misleading, ergo the dispute. I would try to fill out the dispute form/dialog again and finesse whatever answer is stopping the process.

Good luck.

P.s. How can you tell a lawyer is lying? His lips are moving. You know, they stopped using rats for lab experiments and now use lawyers. Turns out they were getting attached to the rats. Thanks, I’m here all week.