Shearwater coming out with new DC?

[SillyQuestions]

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick two.

That's a common, and true, phrase.

You can have it cheap or good is probably more accurate when describing a product.


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[Centrals]

Actually there's a large contingent of divers who complain about this. Hence the Poseidon Cyklon Metal
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Large contingent of divers!!! How often you had met divers using metal 2nd stage worldwide? They are the minority by a huge margin as compared with those using plastic 2nd stages.
How many metal 2nd stages are still in production worldwide?


---------- Post added January 6th, 2016 at 04:50 PM ----------

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick two.

That's a common, and true, phrase.

You can have it cheap or good is probably more accurate when describing a product.


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I can't argue with what you believe.

 

[SillyQuestions]

Large enough to leave a market for them.

And I've met lots of them. But then again, I sump dive internationally


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[AJ]

What make you think that Shearwater is not capable to produce a cheaper DC?
And what make you believe that it would be inferior to the standards that Shearwater has set ?

They are capable, but will they make any money on it? I doubt it. They have to cut corners to make money on a lesser and cheaper DC in a competitive market. So it will have to offer less in some (maybe many) ways than their current line.

In my opnion SW strives to make the very best DC they can, for a price that at least covers the development/production cost and leaves some profit. They are quality driven, not price driven. That's what makes them special. I don't see how they can do less, but offer the same quality and still make some money.

 

[Lorenzoid]

They are capable, but will they make any money on it? I doubt it. They have to cut corners to make money on a lesser and cheaper DC in a competitive market. So it will have to offer less in some (maybe many) ways than their current line.

In my opnion SW strives to make the very best DC they can, for a price that at least covers the development/production cost and leaves some profit. They are quality driven, not price driven. That's what makes them special. I don't see how they can do less, but offer the same quality and still make some money.

That's a great point.

I doubt Shearwater is swimming in piles of profits, but I suspect they are just profitable enough to be satisfied. Perhaps it is that which enables them to provide such reportedly amazing customer service and public relations (see all their candid, helpful posts here on SB). Try getting ahold of a a real person at one of those companies that produces $300 computers.

As much as it looks to us like these things are flying off the shelf, all dive computers are niche products. Shearwater's market share is likely pretty small. I suspect their R&D and other costs are high compared with costs of production. In other words, unless they could somehow substantially increase market share, reducing production costs might not save them enough to be able to reduce the retail price by as much as one thinks. They might not be able to offer the same quality product for $300 no matter what kind of re-engineering or thrifty parts sourcing they do.

As far as re-engineering, if they were to shave a few dollars off the production cost by, say, using a less expensive plastic or reduce the case thickness by still a few more millimeters, that would be fine until some diver somewhere cracks the case, and then in an instant Shearwater loses the reputation for ruggedness that they have worked so hard to achieve. If (just to pick some silly numbers) one in a million of their present products fails, but a hypothetical future low-cost product has a failure rate of one in 100,000, was it worth it? Low-end dive computer manufacturers seem to think it IS worth it. I think most of us who have bought Shearwater computers would rather pay a little more for an over-engineered product that can seemingly withstand a nuclear hit than a little less for something that still has a lower failure rate than comparably priced products. No, it doesn't make logical sense for consumers to desire an over-engineered product, but I guess it's a psychological thing. I have owned a lot of consumer electronics gadgets, and I'm tired of things that break and companies that don't communicate, don't stand behind their products, and are hard to get ahold of.

 

[lowviz]

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick two. ...//...

No argument.

However, the “fast” problem has been attended to daily and vigorously for years and years now. Any advance in developing thin, light, powerful, low battery drain, big bright display electronics comes at an exorbitant overall cost. No industry other that the cellphone industry can support this massive engineering burden.

You can get a surprisingly good resolution color phone for $60 US. The electronics is there. Shearwater can handle the sensor technology. The economics of scale is driving this. Somebody is making money or $60 cellphones wouldn’t exist. IMHO, Shearwater may see that this technology could be the basis for a great DC for the recreational market. No fundamental development cost, it is all proven. Just an engineering migration cost.

...//... it will have to offer less in some (maybe many) ways than their current line. ...//...

I would hope so.

If not, it would erode the pillar of their company.

That's a great point.

I doubt Shearwater is swimming in piles of profits, but I suspect they are just profitable enough to be satisfied. Perhaps it is that which enables them to provide such reportedly amazing customer service and public relations (see all their candid, helpful posts here on SB). Try getting ahold of a a real person at one of those companies that produces $300 computers. ...//...

I see divers divided, rather cleanly, into recreational and technical camps.

Shearwater has claimed the high ground (along with a couple of others) in the tech market. Why can’t they do the same in the recreational market? These are clearly two different mindsets with different sensitivities.

All the tech divers in this thread are down on Shearwater coming out with a solid rec offering. Big surprise. I would expect so, why compete with what feeds your tech company or decreases the name-value of your fancy computer?

So why can’t they come up with a slick top-end elitist recreational DC that will take you 15 minutes into deco and back without the least bit of sniveling? They are Canadian, not US. They seem to have their lawyers under control.

And now for the push-back from the tech world. “They aren’t trained or disciplined, this is criminal, you are allowing them to kill themselves!" Maybe. But most likely, the tech wannabees in the recreational set are just jonesing for a tool that will get them back out of light deco with zero fuss. Or maybe they just want the "bling". Who cares? Freedom of choice and it is their money...

The top-end DC of either the tech or rec world includes a certain degree of elitism. For some, it is all about knocking the socks off the guy/gal next to you on the boat that is diving last year’s technology. Really, what is the new technology that they could offer? A probabilistic model? No, just enlightened choices in a sleek injection molded case with a lovely user interface. And a dummy button.

I would welcome their entry into that market. Why? Personally, I’m dying to see what a clean implementation of a basic recreational DC would be. Spectator sport for me. And never underestimate the power of competition, it drives excellence for the consumer.

My only real concern is that the potential volume sales and profit would compromise their commitment to excellence on the technical side. Profit corrupts.

...//... I'm tired of things that break and companies that don't communicate, don't stand behind their products, and are hard to get ahold of.

So am I.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
So why can’t they come up with a slick top-end elitist recreational DC that will take you 15 minutes into deco and back without the least bit of sniveling? They are Canadian, not US. They seem to have their lawyers under control.
. . .
I would welcome their entry into that market. Why? Personally, I’m dying to see what a clean implementation of a basic recreational DC would be. . . . .

Aside from being relatively expensive, how are Shearwater's present products, when set to Rec Mode, not already that? I haven't begun my tech training yet, and I have been using my Petrel in Rec Mode. To me, it seems that what is displayed on the main screen is as "clean" (that is, free of unnecessary features) an implementation of a recreational dive computer as I can imagine. I can't imagine it contains any especially exotic hardware or software. Simplicity is one of the characteristics of the Petrel that I find attractive.

If to you "basic recreational DC" means cheap plastic case and lower-reliability parts, then I disagree. To me, "basic" means rugged and reliable.

 

[lowviz]

...//... If to you "basic recreational DC" means cheap plastic case and lower-reliability parts, then I disagree. To me, "basic" means rugged and reliable.

Never once said or even implied cheap or low-reliability.

Basic is exactly that, basic. "Basic" from the viewpoint of the overwhelming tech mindset on this thread.

But "High-End" from a recreational mindset.

To your point:
There is no reason that an injection molded case can't be rugged and reliable. Same with the electronics. I'm only saying that I would like to see them enter the recreational market with ONLY the recreational market in mind.

My opinion, won't change. Pointless to argue further.

 

[SillyQuestions]

But what do you get that's different for a rec DC?

Basically, you want a Perdix, but don't want to pay full whack.


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[buddhasummer]

What's that? Is it scubapro?


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Yes...

SCUBAPRO A700 regulator