The point was clearly missed, I should have anticipated this.....
Let me spell it out for the 2 of you....... please pay attention....... I will only waste my time doing this once.
First, Kevin lacking said experience about spearfishing, he probably can't appreciate the gear edge that sometimes comes with multiple aggressive sharks. Then again, I can't appreciate a Salvo light when I am spearfishing. This has nothing to do with "being afraid", it has to do with averaging down the calculated risks that could get out of hand. Kevin, you started a tone with Chad, then proceeded to relay another persons view after that, clearly conveying a lack of experience in the described surroundings. Pointing out this inexperience isn't and wasn't meant to be a personal attack...... it was a point. I also perceived it as something that has been preexisting between the two of you, (Chad) none of my business or concern. I was trying to real you back in on the topic and not let it go personal....... clearly that didn't work. Next time I will just smack you in the back of the head and say "pay attention".
As for the congrats on the cave cert, that is sincere, not sarcastic.
This gear is nothing more than calculating the risk and then trying to tweak it, pushing the limits where you can as we all do. It terms you may understand better, the 1/3 rule...... a game plan to work off of and then expand.......
HETLAND HETLAND HETLAND HETLAND
No. Unless I am totally misunderstanding your stated actions, I will tell you to your face that you are a jack ass. Stupid too.
Clearly I was too presumptuous in assuming you were civil and mature. You clearly want to make this personal.
Do you work for shark shield? Are you a researcher for the company?
While making a representation in the marketplace along with distributing their product, to a point, yes I do. I also have participated with the research results over a period of time from product review and questions, field application being of the primary concern discussed with the manufacturing plant in Australia.
Some people do not respond properly to pepper spray. Before you give any pepper spray to your wife, you should try it out on yourself... and maybe a few professional criminals to see if it works.
So you are saying that I should have tried it out on a different species of shark?? What??
That's a lame justification at best. You're afraid of sharks, so you swim up to them and give them a shock.
Again, Clearly I was too presumptuous in assuming you were civil and mature.
Again, do you work for the company? Is it your job to find out if things are not working properly? What other factors may have been present that may have contributed to the incident?
Again, indirectly yes. As for the dive, no, there were no noticeable or procedural factors associated with the attack. There was no speardiving being engaged in or any other issues that should have preempted the 2 hits from the shark. It appears to be out of curiosity.
I think your post speaks for itself. You're a bad-ass shark-taming shocker! We all marvel at your manly ways......
Did you know you will be far more productive in discussing or debating an issue by showing a more "factual" based approach then getting emotionally involved and undermining your viewpoint? Although your knee jerk comments are amusing, I feel others may tire of them as I am starting too. Really, this is the best you can do for a retort? :focus:
You honestly expect people reading your posts to make inquires about your motives and research your past postings before responding?
That approach is usually more productive than assuming and potentially making an undesirable persona of yourself.
Would it have been easier to say:
"Is this a normal practice that you do to sharks?" or "What would possess you to do that?"
If you had, we wouldn't have wasted all of this time going back and forth. We could have been diving or assisting someone else in something informative, not this.
Again, I say the post speaks for itself. I would also say that someone who swims up to a sandtiger and drops a live wire on it's back is being reckless. Sandtigers usually leave divers alone, and don't attack unless molested.
I've only seen one sandtiger down here.
This is how I can deduce that your experience in a similar environment may be lacking. Casting doubt on the weight of confidence that should be bestowed or considered when reading your viewpoint.
You admit having little to no experience with this species of sharks, nevermind multiple groups of them. How can you voice statements and opinions with such conviction about sand tigers and have no experience diving with them? Help me understand, please.....Do you see how you are making my point for me.
Yes, before you ask, I have film research data that was taken last season where we are diving and there are 12 sand tigers in a 40' radius of us. If I was scared of sharks, I wouldn't have been down there filming. This isn't "tooting my horn", again, this
isn't about fear, it is about calculation risks and product application.
We're stacked up with bulls and sandbars. Maybe you should come down here and try your little toy out on some bulls and see how they like it.
Ironically, we have them here to. Thank you for the offer though. I can tell you that they don't care for the SS either. The seem to be more sensitive to it and don't usually let you get close enough to lay the whip on them.....
hum, what was that maturity statement I was saying earlier? Why do you feel the need to make this personal?
Feel better about yourself now?
I didn't feel bad before. I am concerned about you though, are you doing OK? Are you stressed, can I get you anything?
While I admit that my post may have been smart,
Agreed
I don't see where you can say it was irrational, unjustified, uneducated or unsubstantiated.
If you don't see it, how can you quote it, look up, it is way up there ^, right there.
irrational ------ expressing an opinion without proper experience or familiarity to situation. Then proceeding to make it personal.
unjustified ---- you inserted a derogatory remark, unprovoked, making it personal
uneducated --- you made an assumption that was incorrect, this could have been avoided by educating yourself first, simply ask a question or two before going on the attack.
unsubstantiated- you based your opinions on
other individuals experiences, situations, assumptions and knowledge without having derived to a logical conclusion by any form of deductive reasoning......
I did make the assumption that you are not a scientist or researcher tasked with determining the limitations of a safety product, but I think the assumption was reasonable when based on the information and tone of your post.
I think I covered this, agreed?
Test away big boy! My problem is with how you are testing it. I wouldn't pepper spray or taser a dog to make sure the gear worked. What you are doing is essentially the same, except your dog weighs 500lbs, has sharper teeth, isn't domesticated and doesn't need a tank to breathe underwater.
How are I supposed to know product limitations without real world application? It is turning into a mute point. I don't know of any product that isn't tested in the environment that is it designed for........ not one........
At least I am doing it personally. Could you imagine what people would say if I asked my wife to do it?
I don't know Kevin personally but what does he or his experience have to do with the issue?
Do you really want me to get into this.
I am going to exercise extreme self control here and say if you don't have experience in a specific application, you shouldn't be telling other people how to do it. Enough said.
What qualification or experience is needed to state or to agree that kicking a dog for no reason is sh***y? This is about you harassing wildlife for your "research" not about how many fish some other guy has speared in his lifetime.
Obviously an emotional opinion clearly shared by both of you, does this make it right? Do you still feel that it was "for fun" of just for harassing wildlife as you did before I started wasting 30 minutes of my life I can't get back? As for the "how many fish" comment, don't know what point you are trying to make, doesn't really matter at this time, agreed?
I like making fun of cavers as much as the next guy
My last point:
There is a place for sarcasm, I can be ruthless to
buddies or someone I know, I do keep it toned down to individuals such as yourself that I don't know, at least until I have a perspective on their viewpoints or ideals. I have made an extreme effort to reply to your remarks with kid gloves still on.
Get to know me before you judge me. If I know that you are "busting my -----", fine, I can handle it. If you have a question, ask, I will shot straight. If we differ on viewpoints, that is understandable, occasionally you are going to be wrong, I except this.
If you have a point, lets keep it on topic. If you are interested in turning it into personal attacks, please direct them elsewhere.
If you feel you have reason to be upset from petty issues or points that were brought up in this thread, consider being mature about it and letting bygones be bygones. I have not questioned your character to date, just your comments and actions, keep that in mind. The same courtesy was not conveyed.
Clearly I think enough of the
two of you to extend an olive branch once, as I should.
Who knows, I may turn out to be your gear "hookup" or see you at a spearo tourney.
Kevin, I don't dive caves much anymore, however, I have done part of the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico and used to dive Morrison Springs quite a bit in Fla.
Hetland, if you are going to stand a chance in competing in the blue water category, we are going to have to discuss that 48" gun you are shooting......
Carry on.........
Here I was worried someone wouldn't join the thread making unjustified, uneducated or unsubstantiated comments, assumptions or innuendos. Thanks for setting my mind at ease......
Then again, you are regurgitating info and opinions from someone else, I presume, because you lack real world experience in this specific topic as a whole. As if this esteemed individual you put so much faith in should have any bearing on the subject from our viewpoint at this juncture. From you previous posts above you are solidifying your lack of skills and experience along with demonstrating your inept ability and continuing struggle to overcome thinking for yourself. On the brighter side, it does appear you have mastered the uncanny attribute to project an obviously uneducated, ill informed and bias opinion on said topic. I guess it is better to be good at something, then nothing, right? 
