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DiveGolfSki:
HAPPY BURPDAY.
Shadow Divers -- The Movie
- Thread starter CaptainMarvel
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HAPPY BURPDAY.
As far as the the helicopter incident that was recalled in both "The Last Dive" and "Shadow Divers" the correct account is told in "Shadow Divers". This issue bugged me for a while too having read both books back to back. After asking the question on this board before and finding Ritchie's answer in another forum; I met both Kholer and Chatterton at the Boston Sea Rovers annual show and John said that he is asked about that issue all the time and that the "Shadow Divers" version is correct. He said that he is good friends with Bernie, the author of "The Last Dive" but that Bernie's recount was third hand having been told of the incident by phone. I hope this clears up some confusion.
Thanks for that update. I'm glad to hear it cleared up by one of the parties involved.
For what it's worth, I had a chance to meet Bernie just after publication of his book, when he spoke at a local Hammerheads meeting. He seemed like a great guy, taking time to speak with my kids about diving, to discuss events recounted in his book, and, in general, acting as the perfect VIP speaker. I had to go back and re-read the book after hearing his discussion of it, for I zipped through it pretty fast the first time.
Funny, looking over at my shelves of diving books, I just realized that The Last Dive was the first book of it's genre that I bought. Before that I had training books and some older books about wreck diving, treasure hunting, etc. I think Bernie broke some new ground with his book, combining intensely personal accounts with larger themes.
Just a late night thought, after an evening of quarry diving,
Grier
For what it's worth, I had a chance to meet Bernie just after publication of his book, when he spoke at a local Hammerheads meeting. He seemed like a great guy, taking time to speak with my kids about diving, to discuss events recounted in his book, and, in general, acting as the perfect VIP speaker. I had to go back and re-read the book after hearing his discussion of it, for I zipped through it pretty fast the first time.
Funny, looking over at my shelves of diving books, I just realized that The Last Dive was the first book of it's genre that I bought. Before that I had training books and some older books about wreck diving, treasure hunting, etc. I think Bernie broke some new ground with his book, combining intensely personal accounts with larger themes.
Just a late night thought, after an evening of quarry diving,
Grier
ScubaSeanMaui
Contributor
They moved this thread, so I missed all the wonderful conversation.
I guess I was wrong about Chatterton being less experienced. Certainly the book portrayed him to be the most experienced and focused of the divers. I forgot he was diving the Doria, which is most definitely a major tech dive. My apologies!
As far as the sub crew being less valid than any other combatant in WWII, might I remind you how many civilians died in the countless bombings of cities like London, Berlin, Coventry, Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc. I believe over 50 million people died in WWII, not all of them soldiers. Do you think civilians on land don't get killed by soldiers? The estimate over 100k Iraqis have been killed by the war so far. The German Submariners definitely were doing their duty like any other branch of any military. I got the impression many answered the callup since it was their responsibility, just like any soldier, even though they knew they were on a suicide mission. The US was employing acoustic torpedoes at this point, easily sinking uboats from airplanes.
I still think the sub should have been left unexplored. I know they dive wrecks with victims onboard like in Truk or elsewhere. It doesn't make it right. That's how I feel, so you think whatever you like.
I just saw a news story about another sub which was discovered in Thailand. It's a US sub and was sunk by the Japanese at the end of WWII. Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/thailand_submarine_dc
Would it be ok for the Deep Sea Dectectives to dive this sub and explore inside? We definitely know what sub it is. I guess if your standard is truk, then it's fine for us to go dive the sub and do as we will. The new article talked about the sub being US property. Should this be respected? It's in Thai waters.... Just curious how you feel!
Have a happy 4th of July!
Sean
I guess I was wrong about Chatterton being less experienced. Certainly the book portrayed him to be the most experienced and focused of the divers. I forgot he was diving the Doria, which is most definitely a major tech dive. My apologies!
As far as the sub crew being less valid than any other combatant in WWII, might I remind you how many civilians died in the countless bombings of cities like London, Berlin, Coventry, Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc. I believe over 50 million people died in WWII, not all of them soldiers. Do you think civilians on land don't get killed by soldiers? The estimate over 100k Iraqis have been killed by the war so far. The German Submariners definitely were doing their duty like any other branch of any military. I got the impression many answered the callup since it was their responsibility, just like any soldier, even though they knew they were on a suicide mission. The US was employing acoustic torpedoes at this point, easily sinking uboats from airplanes.
I still think the sub should have been left unexplored. I know they dive wrecks with victims onboard like in Truk or elsewhere. It doesn't make it right. That's how I feel, so you think whatever you like.
I just saw a news story about another sub which was discovered in Thailand. It's a US sub and was sunk by the Japanese at the end of WWII. Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/thailand_submarine_dc
Would it be ok for the Deep Sea Dectectives to dive this sub and explore inside? We definitely know what sub it is. I guess if your standard is truk, then it's fine for us to go dive the sub and do as we will. The new article talked about the sub being US property. Should this be respected? It's in Thai waters.... Just curious how you feel!
Have a happy 4th of July!
Sean
mossym
Contributor
as far as i know, all bodies have been removed from the ships at truk...divebuddysean:
divebuddysean:
It's certainly a reasonable viewpoint. On the other hand, it's my understanding after reading the book that, had they not done the penetration, the sub would not have been identified correctly.
Fritz the scuba cat
Registered
what they did was search the sub strictly for it identity, they made it a huge point not to disturb any of the remains and they even said that going through the sailors pockets, despite the liklyhood of identification being there, was against "the rules"
divebuddysean:
I think that all war graves should be left alone. However, the sub that Chatterton and all dove was not ID'd. The one in Thailand is Identifiable. If I were a family member of one of the missing crew, I would want to know where my family laid at rest. What Chatterton did was give some peace to the living relatives. In my reading of the book, it seemed that he did show much respect for the soldiers in the wreck, more so than many wreck divers would/do.
JeffG
Contributor
and what is your evidence of that?scubalaurel:
JeffG:
Ok, I don't want to start an argument about wreck divers...
First, I said "many". Not most. or all. There are some wreck divers that do not care about laws or right vs. wrong.
I have dove with a group of wreck divers here in So Cal. Many of them are treasure seekers and will take anything, whether bolted down or not, as "artifacts"
I also (unfortunately) know people who have taken body parts from the wrecks in Truk. It makes me very sad. Those people rank with the grave robbers of Egyptian tomes and the Roman catacombs. No matter what the rest of humanity tries to do, there will always be people that will plunder and have little societal conscious.
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