Shadow Divers -- The Movie

[pilot fish]

Sorry PF - I think that you really don't understand what happened (maybe I don't either).

From what I read they simply couldn't afford to buy the Trimix they would have both preferred to use. (unless of course you mean they weren't members of SB in which case they would have been Internetted safe!!)

The likes of you and I shouldn't pass judgement on any of the divers involved in something like this.

As they say - "We can talk the talk ............but can we walk the walk?"

Not sure they were trained in trimix? From what I've read, and heard, they also did not follow any safe guidelines, ever. Improper planning - lack of training? Can I walk that walk? Nope. Don't care to go to 250 ft in cold water, high current and limited vis, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Maya]

I wonder what stage the movie is at? If it is to be released next summer, they should already be filming - especially with a film that will possibly require tech divers to be involved in the filming? Thinking of the work we did on "The Cave" - to be released in August.

 

[onfloat]

Not sure they were trained in trimix? From what I've read, and heard, they also did not follow any safe guidelines, ever. Improper planning - lack of training? Can I walk that walk? Nope. Don't care to go to 250 ft in cold water, high current and limited vis, thankyouverymuch.

Read "The Last Dive", they were trained in trimix by Billy Deans.

 

[Kim]

Not sure they were trained in trimix? From what I've read, and heard, they also did not follow any safe guidelines, ever. Improper planning - lack of training?

Have you actually read either Shadow Divers or The Last Dive? The Rouses were fully trained cave divers and did Sheck Exleys' mixed gas course in 1990. They were one of the first to introduce reels and lines to wreck diving (taken from cave training) - they dove doubles with stages for full redundancy. In short - they were extremely skilled, highly trained divers, held in high regard within the diving world.
They simply couldn't afford to buy the Trimix. (they also had an argument on the boat about who's turn it had been - but neither of them had the money anyway)

IMO your statement/opinion above is incorrect, disrespectful and based on an obvious lack of any knowledge whatsoever.

 

[pilot fish]

Have you actually read either Shadow Divers or The Last Dive? The Rouses were fully trained cave divers and did Sheck Exleys' mixed gas course in 1990. They were one of the first to introduce reels and lines to wreck diving (taken from cave training) - they dove doubles with stages for full redundancy.
They simply couldn't afford to buy the Trimix. (they also had an argument on the boat about who's turn it had been - but neither of them had the money anyway)

IMO your statement/opinion above is incorrect, disrespectful and based on an obvious lack of any knowledge whatsoever.

Yes, I read Shadow Divers when it first came out but did not read The Last Dive. Sorry my memory is lacking as to their trimix cert. That said, I hardly think that's reason for you to take such an uncivil and rude tone to me.

 

[Kim]

That said, I hardly think that's reason for you to take such an uncivil and rude tone to me.

You have tried to cast unwarranted criticism on two exceptional divers who are now tragically both dead. The first time I tried to tell you to stop as politely as I could manage. Unfortunately you persisted in your attacks and assertions, even though you admitted that you know nothing about this type of diving (or wish to). Maybe we have a different definition of rude, but that is what I considered your statements to be.

My second post was therefore blunt. Please reconsider what you yourself posted about the Rouses and read my replies in that light.

 

[GrierHPharmD]

Even though they both discuss the U-869 dives and the Rouse tragedy, the two books have very different points of focus. The Last Dive was about Chris and Chrissy's relationship and the factors that led to their deaths. It also discusses many of the issues surrounding technical diving and the toll that some of the early tech divers paid for their experience. When you read the book, Bernie Chowdhury makes it very clear that one of the reasons for his writing the book was to help him come to terms with his own diving accident. I found the background information and the stories of the other divers to be very interesting and integral to the story that Bernie was sharing.

That being said, I think that Shadow Divers was a better read. The story was more focused on the exploration of the sub and, in general, I liked the writer's storytelling style better.

You've also got to look at the timing of the two books. The Rouses died in October of 1992, and The Last Dive was published in 2000. Shadow Divers was published in 2004. That gave Robert Kurson 4 additional years to put the story into perspective.

The bottom line is that they're both very good wreck diving books. They both impart the sense of adventure that comes with diving an unidentified historical wreck that most of us will only read about. Add to the story a tragic accident caused by multiple factors (competition between a father and son, limited financial resources, bad sea conditions, poor judgement, a siltout, nitrogen narcosis), the complexities of identifying a Nazi sub that was supposedly sunk off of Gibralter, not New Jersey, the issues surrounding diving a war grave, etc., and you've got some fascinating reading in both books.

I guess I don't see much reason in comparing the two books. They achieve different goals and both have enriched my understanding of diving deep wrecks in the Northeast. I can unreservedly recommend both of them, and I think that they supplement each other well (though I would like to know the actual circumstances of the helicopter pickup - that bothered me too.)

-G

 

[pilot fish]

You have tried to cast unwarranted criticism on two exceptional divers who are now tragically both dead. The first time I tried to tell you to stop as politely as I could manage. Unfortunately you persisted in your attacks and assertions, even though you admitted that you know nothing about this type of diving (or wish to). Maybe we have a different definition of rude, but that is what I considered your statements to be.

My second post was therefore blunt. Please reconsider what you yourself posted about the Rouses and read my replies in that light.

The reason I put a question mark after my sentence was because I was not sure if they were trimix certified [Not sure they were trained in trimix? ], which is not an assertion. Kurson also protrayed them in Shadow Divers a dive duo that constanly quarreled, which, I think, seems like divers not totally focused. Of course it is sad they died.

 

[pilot fish]

"Add to the story a tragic accident caused by multiple factors (competition between a father and son, limited financial resources, bad sea conditions, poor judgement, a siltout, nitrogen narcosis), the complexities of identifying a Nazi sub that was supposedly sunk off of Gibralter, not New Jersey, the issues surrounding diving a war grave, etc., and you've got some fascinating reading in both books." grierpharamd

This is what I remember hearing and reading about them.

 

[Kim]

You may try and defend what you said, but to me:
"I don't think it's equipment as much as training that they skrimped on" (post#113)
"they also did not follow any safe guidelines, ever." (post#121)
are assertions/opinions.
I had also told you that they would have preferred to use Trimix (hard to do without training, no?) - so questioning again whether they had that training is not exactly polite now, is it?

Maybe you didn't really mean it the way it came out, but if Sue Rouse read your comments about her husband and son (which for all I know she might of), I could imagine they would be extremely upsetting posted in such a public way on the largest scuba diving internet site in the world, especially if left uncountered.
If you really want to understand more about them I highly suggest that you get "The Last Dive" - I am reasonably certain that you would regard them in a different way to now. "Shadow Divers" isn't really about the Rouses - "The Last Dive" is.