Secure Areas in Airports

[Diver Dennis]

Things can get through if you are an employee doing it, there are hundreds of ways into the secured areas without going through security IF you have the pass. To make workers go through the security areas every time they need to go in and out of a secure area would bring the airport to a standstill

So you agree that there is a large hole in airport security? Hundreds of ways would suggest that. If you offered an employee a large sum of money, and that person was desperate and had a pass, would it be possible to bring in an explosive device?

 

[Diver Dennis]

You still seem to think that the secure area is secure from things in and things out.

It's only supposed to be secure (to the best of my knowledge) from things getting INTO the area, once things are in the area they aren't anymore secure than anywhere else.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if things can get out, they can get in as well. As the previous post to yours said, there are hundreds of ways. It's not easy to smuggle out a camera housing under your shirt.
If things are no longer secure once they are into a secure area as you say, what's stopping them from being tampered with? Like say placing an explosive device in one?

 

[AndyNZ]

Lets see you put the locks on in NZ and hand your bag over then it sits around for a few hours. Then off you go...land in the US and within a few minuets you are picking up your bags for customs. When would be the best time to go through a bag?

Actually, no. I pack my bags and check them through security in NZ. Then, for some bizzare reason even though I am in transit through the US (ultimate destination Canada or the UK) I have to clear customs in the US and pick up my bags and deposit them at the transfer desk, with the locks still intact. I am supposedly still in a secure area with cleared baggage but the security guy insists on inspecting my luggage so i open the locks let him look and then lock the bag again before leaving them in his tender loving care.

When I get to where I'm going, the locks are broken and anything remotely different is missing. To be fair, this only happens transiting through LAX but things I've had removed whilst in transit are:

Two pairs of nail scissors
A compact digital camera (ok, I should have known better than to leave that in luggage)
A gel hand exerciser
A pair of cycling shoes
Surfboard wax
Shaving foam
A stainless steel potato masher (yeah, just don't ask why I had it)

Go figure, huh? This is overkill when you are <in transit> through to somewhere else!! I've given up going through LAX and now route through SFO or HNL and whilst you still have to clear customs when in tranist at least things have stopped being pinched from my luggage.

Not offence taken.

 

[cdiver2]

As I mentioned in a previous post, if things can get out, they can get in as well. As the previous post to yours said, there are hundreds of ways. It's not easy to smuggle out a camera housing under your shirt.
If things are no longer secure once they are into a secure area as you say, what's stopping them from being tampered with? Like say placing an explosive device in one?

There is no security for things leaving a secure area ( only people you must have a badge ).

Would you like every employee searched as they leave? As I said in a earlier post this would bring the airport to a standstill

Yes an EMPLOYEE could tamper/steal

To answer all your questions, things going into a secure area and being secure whilst there are just as secure as your money in the bank the ONLY PEOPLE that can influence it is the EMPLOYEES.

Yes security could be a whole lot better..BUT...Joe public would not stand for the inconvenience or expense.

Camera housing....easy I take it out in the mail truck when I go to do a pickup / drop off at the post office.

 

[JamesD]

As I mentioned in a previous post, if things can get out, they can get in as well. As the previous post to yours said, there are hundreds of ways. It's not easy to smuggle out a camera housing under your shirt.
If things are no longer secure once they are into a secure area as you say, what's stopping them from being tampered with? Like say placing an explosive device in one?

I disagree with your statement that if things can get out, they can get in as well. Ignoring the hundreds of ways (I'm not aware of those, and I've never worked at an airport so I really can't comment).

But if you have a secure area, secure in that only allowed items can get in, then it doesn't matter what can get out, only things you want in there can get in. So you can pay an employee a ton of money, if explosives can't get into a secure area, it doesn't matter if the employee can take every single bag OUT of the area, if they can't get explosives in, they can't get explosives in.

Of course this is a hyperthetical secure area, it wouldn't surprise me to learn there are ways to get things into the secure area that shouldn't be there, but generally airports are secure in that only certain things are allowed in.

 

[cdiver2]

I disagree with your statement that if things can get out, they can get in as well. Ignoring the hundreds of ways (I'm not aware of those, and I've never worked at an airport so I really can't comment).

But if you have a secure area, secure in that only allowed items can get in, then it doesn't matter what can get out, only things you want in there can get in. So you can pay an employee a ton of money, if explosives can't get into a secure area, it doesn't matter if the employee can take every single bag OUT of the area, if they can't get explosives in, they can't get explosives in.

Of course this is a hyperthetical secure area, it wouldn't surprise me to learn there are ways to get things into the secure area that shouldn't be there, but generally airports are secure in that only certain things are allowed in.

Things can get in *Employees*. However he/she runs the chance they may pass a sniffer dog and get caught.

You would be amazed at how much is asked of the people that work out there and how little they get paid.

 

[Diver Dennis]

cdiver2 I understand that it's just employees that can tamper with bags. That is part of my point. Who is responsible for the employees? I've never lost money in a bank, although I heard of bank employees embezzling money, but if I did the bank would be responsible. I'm betting if you the airlines or the airports were paying out full value of lost goods, or there is a major incident, that security would be a whole lot better, in a hurry. Even if that meant random searches of employees, which does not have to be done along side passengers.
We, Joe public, already have put up with much inconvenience and expense. And it just continues, an example are the new puffer machines. What does each one of those cost and how long will before other more advanced security machines come along? All these new and constantly updated security measures make sure passengers and their bags are checked but you're right, what about the employees? As you say, there are lots of ways to get things in and out. If employees can tamper or steal, as you say, with the bags in these secure areas, they have the opportunity to place something in a bag as easily as taking something from it. If you can get my camera housing from a secure area into a mail truck, it's not searching the mail truck that is the problem. The problem is the secure area is not.
This issue goes beyond stolen items, it has more to do with security. Does it take a maor incident for something to be done? Spending millions making sure passengers and their bags are thoroughly checked but leaving a gaping hole in checking the employees, as you say, is truly a waste of money. And that is something we shouldn't stand for.

 

[scubamickey]

In my opinion, stealing from passengers is wrong regardless of how much money you get paid. Firefighters and cops don't get paid a lot in many cities. Does that mean that it's OK for them to steal from the victims when nobody is looking? It happens. But it's not right.
Paying people more money to keep them from stealing is wrong. What kind of message does that send to the honest folk?

I'm not sorry if this offends anyone. I was raised as a poor immigrant in the inner city and stealing was not tolerated by my parents. Their integrity meant more to them than a used pair of socks.

 

[JamesD]

I'm not sure anyone is claiming it's right for employees to steal (in this case from passengers, but in general) however it's a fact of life that it happens, it's working out how to deal with it effectively.

While I absolutely agree with everything Diver Dennis has posted, I think he has unrealistic expectations about things. Trains can be blown up, the only way to truely make trains safe is to have every inch of track be secure, which is basically impossible.

Airplanes have the same issue, if someone really wants to, I'm sure they can blow up a plane or steal from a passenger, it's just trying to strike the balance between stupidly excessive security and reasonable level of safety.

 

[cdiver2]

cdiver2 I understand that it's just employees that can tamper with bags. That is part of my point. Who is responsible for the employees? I've never lost money in a bank, although I heard of bank employees embezzling money, but if I did the bank would be responsible. I'm betting if you the airlines or the airports were paying out full value of lost goods, or there is a major incident, that security would be a whole lot better, in a hurry. Even if that meant random searches of employees, which does not have to be done along side passengers.
We, Joe public, already have put up with much inconvenience and expense. And it just continues, an example are the new puffer machines. What does each one of those cost and how long will before other more advanced security machines come along? All these new and constantly updated security measures make sure passengers and their bags are checked but you're right, what about the employees? As you say, there are lots of ways to get things in and out. If employees can tamper or steal, as you say, with the bags in these secure areas, they have the opportunity to place something in a bag as easily as taking something from it. If you can get my camera housing from a secure area into a mail truck, it's not searching the mail truck that is the problem. The problem is the secure area is not.
This issue goes beyond stolen items, it has more to do with security. Does it take a maor incident for something to be done? Spending millions making sure passengers and their bags are thoroughly checked but leaving a gaping hole in checking the employees, as you say, is truly a waste of money. And that is something we shouldn't stand for.

ITS you (Joe Public ) that stops full security and all that it entails inconvenience and expense, Joe will not pay or stand for it. If you think you are inconvenienced now I would hate to have to deal with you if really tight security came in. Oh and you would probably not be able to afford a plane ticket for your next vacation.

And by the way stealing from baggage is small compared to some of the things that is considered ok at airports.