Seattle Diver Death

[Willie]

Despite the drag, in a situation where someone was truly OOA and you couldn't inflate the drysuit, I'd be tempted to keep the BC on and orally inflate it as a safety measure. Of course, I haven't felt the drag, except in Rescue class, where the two was fairly short.

I havent had rescue yet, but ...

I see the reason to remove ditchable weights, but I always wondered why not keep the BC slightly inflated at the surface to assist in buoyancy and insure that the victim wouldnt just decend if you lost contact with them for some reason.

Just a thought.

Willie

 

[Seuss]

I always wondered why not keep the BC slightly inflated at the surface to assist in buoyancy and insure that the victim wouldnt just decend if you lost contact with them for some reason.

Every situtation is different. There is no sequence of instructions one can follow that will work every time for every emergency. There are times that you might need/want to remove gear, such as when you have to tow the victim a long distance to get help, to reduce drag. There are other times when you may need/want to leave most of the gear on until ready to exit the water. Stop, think, then act in a manner appropriate for the unique situtation.

Don't foget that a wetsuit, at the surface, has a lot of buoyancy. With all my gear gone except the wetsuit, I float like a block of styrofoam.

 

[DiveMaven]

When I took Rescue, we talked at length about the recommendations for rescuing the unconscious diver who is not breathing. I disagreed with the teaching for these reasons, which I think I've written somewhere here before:

Breathing is a function programmed deep in the brainstem. Absence of a drive to breathe (apnea) is considered evidence of brain death. The acute victim who is not TRYING to breathe may have an obstructed airway, or may be making breathing efforts which are so feeble you can't detect them -- Thus the utility of the two rescue breaths. If the victim has no cough or choke reflex with the rescue breaths, and makes no effort to breathe thereafter, then most likely, there is little or no circulation to the brain. At that point, ventilating the patient is of little utility, and the goal should be the restoration of circulation. Therefore, I would cease efforts at rescue breathing in favor of the fastest possible transit to a stable surface, which it sounds like was done in this case.

This is my opinion as an ER doc. It is not the formal teaching. It's what I would do if I were, God help me, faced with the situation Lamont was handling.

THANK YOU so much for posting this! Although I haven't done my Rescue course yet (Dec!), I have the materials and actually read through them within a few days of updating my First Aid/CPR class. I remember wondering why the Rescue material was instructing me to waste my time rescue breathing if the victim didn't have a pulse, instead of getting quickly to shore (or a boat) where I could begin CPR. Since the brain is dying without oxygen, every second that you delay getting circulation (thus oxygen) to the brain is resulting is brain damage.

Without more medical knowledge, I couldn't really think of how to articulate this to an instructor, but now I can thanks to you. I think this will be a good discussion in our Rescue class, and frankly I think your plan to get a victim to a hard surface to begin full CPR instead of wasting time rescue breathing is the best one.

 

[RiverRat]

This is good info. I was told there were changes since I took Rescue. Basically not to waste time with in water breathing (unless there is a responce or you know you have a pulse) and get the victim out asap. This explains it a little (alot) better.

 

[IslandCowgirl]

My thoughts are with the diver, her dive buddy, her family and her friends.

 

[stardust]

Thanks Lamont and Lundysd for your responses.

The reason I asked was that I took the PADI Rescue class 2.5 years ago and am now in Divemaster training. This weekend I was helping out with a Rescue Class and attempted my underwater non responsive ascent, rescue and tow. I had a heck of a time trying to coordinate the breathing with taking the equipment off while towing them in. I was wondering how realistic this would be in an actual situation. Your responses have clarified this for me.

This can now be done in DM class with a partner helping carry gear and they can help get them onto flat surface once you get them into shallow water, not a huge help but some, my helper person lost my mask in the process.

 

[Scot M]

I remember wondering why the Rescue material was instructing me to waste my time rescue breathing if the victim didn't have a pulse, instead of getting quickly to shore (or a boat) where I could begin CPR. Since the brain is dying without oxygen, every second that you delay getting circulation (thus oxygen) to the brain is resulting is brain damage.

This is a good question, and it will make for a good discussion in your Rescue class.

The reason that they teach in-water rescue breathing is that, while a drowning victim may have a pulse but not be breathing, it is very difficult to feel for a pulse while still in the water. Your fingers are cold and the victim is bobbing around. It would be too easy to miss a weak pulse, so don't waste time looking for one. Instead, look for breathing and, if there isn't any, give two packing breaths and watch for a response. If there is circulation, there will likely be a response to ventilation.

The current guidelines are to provide in-water rescue breaths only if there is a positive response to the packing breaths or if the estimated transport time is less than five minutes. If it's more than a five minute swim and the packing breaths don't do anything, skip the rescue breathing and get the victim on the shore or boat as quickly as possible so you can start CPR.

 

[girldiverllc]

Also, I saw it posted somewhere that the victim had white froth appearing at the mouth. I've been present at one incident only (thankfully..) and there was not only white but also red froth bubbling up and out of the mouth. It was impossible to perform rescue breaths on the surface. After the victim was put into the boat, rescue breaths were immediately started, however, the mouth needed to be cleared frequently to be able to get any air into the lungs.

My thoughts and prayers are with anyone who has to go through a rescue. It's not pretty...so you HAVE to be able to go into "auto-pilot". Rescue class...repeatedly...is a must.

Cindy
http://www.girldiver.com

 

[TBone]

Geof "Bones" Corriveau here. I am one of the three scooter divers that helped get Cheryl to the dock. This is the first "big" bulletin board string I've read since the tragedy. I knew Lamont and Raul would represent us well, and I debriefed with Bob "Grateful Diver" Bailey. I asked him to keep an eye out for any germinating myths on the big scuba lists. Bob (and Cheryl Fisher) is Lamont's and my NAUI Rescue Diver instructor.

The "20% Rule" mentioned early in this string is right on the money. Most of us will experience a dramatic drop in IQ in emergency situations. The figure I use is 50% of IQ, but the 20% of IQ figure is probably spot-on for an emergency happening at depth, where even without an emergency we are often "stupid" from nitrogen narcosis.

Can you and your buddies do your critical emergency skills "stupid?" If the answer isn't an emphatic "yes," please start mixing in "skills dives" with your fun dives. Practice Out Of Airs (OOA) in 10 feet of water, and go deeper as your confidence grows. Consider switching to a "long hose" gear configuration (aka DIR or Hogarthian). If you want to try out a long-hose, there are plenty of divers in the Seattle area that will show you show you some basic techniques. Most are "sold" on the configuration after just one OOA drill.

When we scootered onto the scene, two divers were with Cheryl (a mother of two grown children). It was a picture perfect scene of correct procedure. The buddy was towing at Cheryl's tank valve, and a diver who swam to the scene was doing a fin-push. Cheryl's face was above the water. Unfortunately she hadn't been breathing for several minutes. She was completely unresponsive. I recall that the buddy told us she did not respond to her rescue breaths. There was physical evidence (foam from the mouth) that her lungs were full of seawater.

Hindsight:
Removing gear before towing her in would have been a good move in this situation. The swimming divers were exhausted and happy to see our scooters (Gavins). No matter what the buddy says, double-check that weights are dropped before you cut away a BC. While Lamont towed, I swam by Cheryl's side looking for signs of life that just weren't there. Keep in mind that if a victim isn't breathing, keeping an airway open and water off the victim's face is irrelevant. Get them to shore as quickly as possible.

Raul and me went out scooter diving two days after this tragedy. We did some therapeutic OOA drills, and practiced scooter-towing an unconscious diver. Ironically towing by grabbing on to the diver's valves is easy. Obviously we need to figure out a way to tow after we've cut off the victim's gear. Because of our 7 foot "long hose" it wasn't difficult to keep our primary regulator in the victim's mouth while towing.

Keep your dive knife razor sharp, and corrosion free. You may need to cut through 2" webbing to get gear off. The unglazed bottom ridge of a ceramic coffee cup is a great sharpening "stone" for serrated knives. Keep the razor sharp knife coated with a film of silicone grease will prevent corrosion.

Don't forget about the SMBs (Surface Marker Buoys) in our pockets. They may be useful for keeping a breathing diver's airway open, and clear of splashing water.

Our own BC and Drysuit inflator hoses might work to fill an OOA victims' drysuit.

HID Lights work on the surface too. In a heads-up move, Raul managed to signal a passing Coast Guard boat with his 18W HID light in broad daylight.

My heart goes out to Cheryl's family and her dive buddy. Cheryl made a series of bad decisions that fateful day, which were completely outside her buddy's control. It's our responsibility to our families, friends, and dive buddies to learn from this so we never make the same mistakes Cheryl made.

 

[lamont]

HID Lights work on the surface too. In a heads-up move, Raul managed to signal a passing Coast Guard boat with his 18W HID light in broad daylight.

that also showed another thing which is that when you've got a bunch of people it helps if a few of them try to stay away from getting tunnel vision. this can prevent the "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome and you might just come up with a brilliant idea like this one...