Seattle Diver Death

[lamont]

I had a heck of a time trying to coordinate the breathing with taking the equipment off while towing them in. I was wondering how realistic this would be in an actual situation. Your responses have clarified this for me.

Keep in mind that the reason you want to get their gear off is that it immediately becomes much easier to tow them because you're hauling less mass with a smaller cross-section through the water. 2 packing breaths, strip their gear, then tow (and breathe if possible) is probably the best sequence you'll be able to do -- and its that "strip gear, then tow" sequence that I'd focus on.

 

[Diver Dennis]

what we learned on tuesday was:

1. don't remove their equipment 'if possible': *immediately* remove their equipment, *period*. you have to get them out of the water and getting all their equipment off ASAP will speed that whole process up and you'll be able to tow them a lot faster and get them out a lot easier. we didn't do this correctly.

2. rescue breathing won't do a whole lot of good if their heart isn't pumping and you can't do chest compression in the water (in the recent change to the CPR guidelines on dry land, they even suggest not doing rescue breathing in favor of chest compressions). focus on getting them to land and starting CPR. do the rescue breathing if possible, but you will likely be so stressed that I would suggest forgetting about it. this is particularly true at a site like alki where emergency response will be there quickly and its best to focus on just getting them out of the water. also, they're likely to be spitting up some fairly nasty stuff and you probably dont have a pocket mask...

Lamont, you guys did a great job getting her back in. It's one of situations that we all hope we never have to face but you did all you could in such as stressful incident. Sad indeed.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Keep in mind that the reason you want to get their gear off is that it immediately becomes much easier to tow them because you're hauling less mass with a smaller cross-section through the water. 2 packing breaths, strip their gear, then tow (and breathe if possible) is probably the best sequence you'll be able to do -- and its that "strip gear, then tow" sequence that I'd focus on.

Would you factor towing distance into your decision?

What if I only had a very short distance to go and after traversing that short distance would have help with all the rest?

Please note, that my question isn't, in any way meant as a critisism of actions that were taken in the real rescue. I've spent a fair amount of time and effort training/practicing for this but I have NOT ever actually had to egress with a real unconcious diver. A few psycotic divers maybe but they were all awake.

 

[lamont]

Would you factor towing distance into your decision?

What if I only had a very short distance to go and after traversing that short distance would have help with all the rest?

no, i don't think thats a factor. just strip the gear first.

we actually had a very short distance to tow and a lot of people to help and even with the scooters the fact that we didn't strip the gear made it go slower. i was acutely aware of how much drag i was pulling when i hit the trigger and it was very substantial -- i had a hard time holding on -- getting rid of that first would have really helped. i think we were 100 feet or less from the dock and it was still slow.

you're also going to have to get their gear off sooner or later. either you stop at the shore/dock to get their gear off, or you strip their gear first. i'd say plan on always doing it first and getting it out of the way then you can tow and exit the water easier.

there might be some edge condition where its better not to, but i can't think of it...

 

[BDub]

2. rescue breathing won't do a whole lot of good if their heart isn't pumping and you can't do chest compression in the water (in the recent change to the CPR guidelines on dry land, they even suggest not doing rescue breathing in favor of chest compressions). focus on getting them to land and starting CPR. do the rescue breathing if possible, but you will likely be so stressed that I would suggest forgetting about it. this is particularly true at a site like alki where emergency response will be there quickly and its best to focus on just getting them out of the water. also, they're likely to be spitting up some fairly nasty stuff and you probably dont have a pocket mask...

Keep in mind that we were able to see/hear emergency response enroute just after we got to the victim. This made the decision to just get her in to shore quickly a little more clear.

 

[Quarrior]

Keep in mind that the reason you want to get their gear off is that it immediately becomes much easier to tow them because you're hauling less mass with a smaller cross-section through the water. 2 packing breaths, strip their gear, then tow (and breathe if possible) is probably the best sequence you'll be able to do -- and its that "strip gear, then tow" sequence that I'd focus on.

Lamont,

It's interesting that you say that because that is exactly what I learned in my Rescue class.

The other factor one needs to keep in mind, it is a whole lot easier to dump the gear out in the water than it is when you get to shore and have to fight with gravity. Use the water to your advantage.

As for bouyancy, if they are in a wet suit, they'll float no problem. If they are diving dry, punch the inflator a bit before you disconnect it and they'll float too.

 

[lamont]

As for bouyancy, if they are in a wet suit, they'll float no problem. If they are diving dry, punch the inflator a bit before you disconnect it and they'll float too.

As long as you've dumped their weightbelt and tanks/BC they should be really floaty if they're diving dry, too. I hop in the water all the time with just my drysuit on (either to cool off, or sometimes i'm supporting other divers getting out of the water) and i'm super floaty with my 400g...

Also, in this case the tank had 0 psi so the drysuit inflator wouldn't have worked...

 

[CAPNVINNY]

whatever is best and practical in a real live situation is best,however you won't get points on that in rescue and especially in the IE,you must do it by the book there.

 

[Quarrior]

Also, in this case the tank had 0 psi so the drysuit inflator wouldn't have worked...

Forgot about that part. It's been a while since I read the beginning of the thread. I just hadn't posted before.

 

[MikeFerrara]

no, i don't think thats a factor. just strip the gear first.

we actually had a very short distance to tow and a lot of people to help and even with the scooters the fact that we didn't strip the gear made it go slower. i was acutely aware of how much drag i was pulling when i hit the trigger and it was very substantial -- i had a hard time holding on -- getting rid of that first would have really helped. i think we were 100 feet or less from the dock and it was still slow.

you're also going to have to get their gear off sooner or later. either you stop at the shore/dock to get their gear off, or you strip their gear first. i'd say plan on always doing it first and getting it out of the way then you can tow and exit the water easier.

there might be some edge condition where its better not to, but i can't think of it...

When I said "short" I was thinking really short...say 20 ft.

What about warm water where the diver might not be wearing any buoyant exposure protection. Some people aren't very floaty. Might there not be cases where you need their BC?