Seacraft vs suex DPV

[grantmac]

Where is the best place to get the cells?

One of the best parts about the Genesis is any 18650 cell can be used.

 

[GF99/99]

Suex XJ-S
185 minutes run at 150fpm
5.3 mile range
940 W-Hr battery
Must remove battery from hull to charge
74# of thrust

Genesis 3.1
300 minutes
8.7 mile range
850 W-Hr battery (I.e. way more efficient motor)
Do not even open hull to charge
90# of thrust

Genesis is shorter and lighter, also.

Seacraft Future 1000 is comparable to Genesis. A little longer runtime, I think, thanks to 150 W-Hr more battery. Also longer and heavier.

i was told recently by a Seacraft owner that their maintenance schedule calls for new bearings every 100 hours, which costs around $1000. I do not know the truth of that but I would be checking into it before buying one.

Genesis doesn’t have any scheduled maintenance that I know of.

Also, replacing all the batteries in a Future 1000 is well,over $2000. You can replace all the batteries in a G3.1 for under $400.

I have close to 300hr on my unit and it still runs like new!

Where is the best place to get the cells?

Any one of the many online retailers that sell Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA cells, usually around $4-$5 a cell. The beauty of the Genesis is it just takes a whole bunch of 18650's that are user changeable. Another one of the reasons why I bought at Genesis. Also Panasonic/Sanyo cells you can get pretty much any where in the world, my scooter lives in Indonesia at the moment so knowing that I can easily get batteries is a huge plus. Trying to get specialized large capacity Li-Ion batteries shipped from the EU to a foreign country is a mission not to mention the crazy import tax.

Genesis battery is just a bunch or these trays:

 

[L13]

One of the best parts about the Genesis is any 18650 cell can be used.

Yes, but where is a good place to get them?

 

[stuartv]

Where is the best place to get the cells?

Jon at Logic suggested to me to get them from 18650batterystore.com.

 

[L13]

Any one of the many online retailers that sell Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA cells, usually around $4-$5 a cell.

Such as?

 

[stuartv]

I have close to 300hr on my unit and it still runs like new!

What unit?

And the issue I was raising is not what you can get away with - I’ve seen cars go 20,000 miles without an oil change. The issue is what is the manufacturer’s recommended maintenance schedule.

 

[Whitrzac]

Jon at Logic suggested to me to get them from 18650batterystore.com.

This.
I get all of my cells and supplies through them

 

[Nick_Radov]

Plus in addition SUEX have a lot of torque (hence the handle off by 90deg) and feel very heavy under water.

Every scooter mentioned here produces a similar amount of torque. That's just a mathematical function of the force that the motor experts on the prop. You can't reduce torque without also reducing thrust.

Traditionally most tow-behind scooters that descend from Bill Gavin's original design use an asymmetric internal weight distribution so that when the motor is running the scooter rotates 90° counterclockwise and heaviest part of the scooter body moves from the bottom to the right, thus balancing out the torque and keeping it in a stable orientation.

The Genesis 3 series is different in that it has inlet guide vanes affixed to the prop shroud to counteract torque by deflecting water opposite to the prop rotation direction. This induces a bit of extra drag but overall, the design is still efficient. It's sort of like how single-engine propeller airplanes use rudder adjustments and trim tabs to counteract torque and maintain level flight.

I would genuinely struggle today to find a "good reason" to buy a SUEX in 2023/2024. If it's not that you have already a few SUEX, etc.

I think Suex is still the only scooter that has an optional dead reckoning navigation system available, which some divers find useful. But otherwise, I generally agree: Suex has become complacent and failed to keep pace with competitors' innovations.

 

[gordonscuba]

Every scooter mentioned here produces a similar amount of torque. That's just a mathematical function of the force that the motor experts on the prop. You can't reduce torque without also reducing thrust.

Traditionally most tow-behind scooters that descend from Bill Gavin's original design use an asymmetric internal weight distribution so that when the motor is running the scooter rotates 90° counterclockwise and heaviest part of the scooter body moves from the bottom to the right, thus balancing out the torque and keeping it in a stable orientation.

The Genesis 3 series is different in that it has inlet guide vanes affixed to the prop shroud to counteract torque by deflecting water opposite to the prop rotation direction. This induces a bit of extra drag but overall, the design is still efficient. It's sort of like how single-engine propeller airplanes use rudder adjustments and trim tabs to counteract torque and maintain level flight.

I think Suex is still the only scooter that has an optional dead reckoning navigation system available, which some divers find useful. But otherwise, I generally agree: Suex has become complacent and failed to keep pace with competitors' innovations.

Could the suex navigation system be attached to another scooter?

 

[stuartv]

This pretty much sums it up, for me.

	Genesis 3.1	Seacraft Future 1000	Suex XJ-S
Price (12/16/2023) (USD$)	8970	8778	8205
Thrust (lbs)	90+	76+	74
Range (at 150fpm) (miles)	8.7	9.8	5
Run (at 150fpm) (minutes)	300	350	185
Battery capacity (W-Hr)	850	1000	940
Weight (lbs)	34	35	44
Length (inches)	24.5	33.3	31
Depth rating (ft)	660	490	660
Depth rating optional	1000	n/a	n/a
Replace batteries (USD$)	350	2700	2600
Sealed hull charging	Y	Y	N
Optional Power Take-off	Y	Y	N
One-hand speed control	Y	Y	N
Infinitely variable speed	Y	N	Y
TSA-compliant	Y	Y*	N
		* only with optional
		reduced-capacity
		battery kit

Seacraft manual, section 11.1.1.4:

It is recommended to replace the seals at least every 12 months.

Seacraft manual, section 11.1.1.6:

It is highly recommended to have the scooter serviced every 12 months by an authorized service center, in order to evaluate the battery condition, to update the scooter software etc.