Unknown Sea Story lob sinks

[ontdiver]

I don't know anything about their credentials, but CDWS (referenced earlier in this thread IIRC) has a "blacklist" for dive operators: CDWS Blacklist

Perhaps someone with a marine safety background could get further details on CDWS criteria.

 

[NothingClever]

I don't know anything about their credentials, but CDWS (referenced earlier in this thread IIRC) has a "blacklist" for dive operators: CDWS Blacklist

That’s an impressive list!

 

[Jai Bar]

If all divers did this every trip, the situation would likely improve.

Unfortunately, several times I get frowned upon, get rolling eyes like "stop asking questions, let's get this over so we c

I don't know anything about their credentials, but CDWS (referenced earlier in this thread IIRC) has a "blacklist" for dive operators: CDWS Blacklist

Perhaps someone with a marine safety background could get further details on CDWS criteria.

It could be well a list of those who haven't paid- yet...

 

[bvbellomo]

I am disappointed, but not surprised, at the lack of reporting coming out of Egypt, nothing since Tuesday. I assume the 7 missing are still missing.

I doubt we hear news unless they find someone (alive or dead). Did they ever find the German woman lost on the Sea Legend? Eventually the search is called off and they become presumed dead. I am not hopeful anyone else will be found.

 

[bvbellomo]

I don't know anything about their credentials, but CDWS (referenced earlier in this thread IIRC) has a "blacklist" for dive operators: CDWS Blacklist

Perhaps someone with a marine safety background could get further details on CDWS criteria.

I did a lot of research on boats and operators planning the trips cancelled during COVID as well as hoping to go since. I don't see any tour operators I recognize, and randomly checking a few, they don't have any big boats. These are likely newer, smaller operators either trying to get by without paying or certification, or still in the process. They might not be safe, but all the accidents we've heard about are big boats and big operators, and for many of us traveling from far away, those are the options we'd consider.

I was not on the Emperor Echo. I was on the Emperor Elite, but with a group that chartered both boats since we had too many people for 1 boat. Seemed like everything was well thought out and prioritized as far as safety.

 

[John Bantin]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkhArE7knnw

 

[chillyinCanada]

I suppose the question is that if you're on the boat, start kicking the tires so to speak and feel unsafe, what then? I don't really see an operator that allows their vessels to run in unsafe condition cheerfully agreeing to a refund if you decide to walk off at the dock (assuming they do the brief before casting off).

Personally, I'd rather not put myself into that situation; a liveaboard trip (or generally any overseas dive trip) is a significant investment for me and I'm inclined to check things before I book so as not to flush money and time down the drain. Unless I get a personal recommendation for a good operator in the Red Sea that isn't cutting corners, it's off my list for the foreseeable future. The only way things are going to change is if there's a clear financial incentive (for the operators and the government) to run safely.

You make a point indeed. That said, it's hard to tell from here, whether or not an emergency hatch is painted over.

 

[bvbellomo]

I suppose the question is that if you're on the boat, start kicking the tires so to speak and feel unsafe, what then? I don't really see an operator that allows their vessels to run in unsafe condition cheerfully agreeing to a refund if you decide to walk off at the dock (assuming they do the brief before casting off).

Personally, I'd rather not put myself into that situation; a liveaboard trip (or generally any overseas dive trip) is a significant investment for me and I'm inclined to check things before I book so as not to flush money and time down the drain. Unless I get a personal recommendation for a good operator in the Red Sea that isn't cutting corners, it's off my list for the foreseeable future. The only way things are going to change is if there's a clear financial incentive (for the operators and the government) to run safely.

I think we, as a diving community, need to put more emphasis on safety in our trip reports and reviews. Pick any liveaboard, anywhere in the world, and my guess is the food is mentioned ten times as often as safety in the reviews. If people started posting more about conditions and if they felt safe or unsafe, then people will start using that to decide between operators.

This is somewhat limited as very few of us can do more than speculate about design of a boat. If I think it looks ready to fall over on its own, it might still be nearly unsinkable and if it looks safe it might not be seaworthy. I think boats have gotten too tall, especially for a shallow draft, but this is far from my area of expertise. Hopefully either the Egyptian government or operators themselves pay competent engineers to look into this. In the end, it is all about money, and while operators might cut corners where they think they can get away with it, I can't imagine either the Sea Legend or Sea Story were a financial success. These were very expensive boats.

 

[ontdiver]

What we probably need is a 1) LOB pre-booking checklist/questionnaire that folks could use to narrow down their choices for a specific boat; and 2) a post-LOB checklist to provide structured and objective comments. This and other info could just sit in the trip report folder under a specific heading.

I've been on some day boats out of both Hurghada and Marsa Alam and while they weren't new, there were no discernable maintenance issues; the crews were professional and safety first oriented and the briefings were thorough. But could these same boats have been unsafe for a multi-day trip? Who knows?

I think most of us are probably so excited when we get on a boat that we don't pay that much attention to anything other than the cosmetics ie general cleanliness of common areas; condition of room; condition of dive deck, lounge etc. All to say, we need a starting point, particularly for those who know very little about boats and what to look/listen for.

 

[ijdod]

One issue is that while we can rate a good security briefing, and the general physical state and availability of safety measures, few of us are knowledgeable on the actual details. A good example is the height of these boats. They sure as well look unstable to me. But then again, so are modern cruiseships, which are substantially taller relative to their other dimensions. I don't know what makes or breaks such designs (and if Egyptian shipyards cut corners which could make such a design safe(r)).