Unknown Sea Story lob sinks

[rmorgan]

I think this is the most recent: Diver reveals survivors pulled from cabins 40ft underwater on sunken yacht – latest

According to the reporting:

“According to diver Khattab al-Faramawy, the yacht is largely submerged with just half a metre poking above water.

“We dived 12m (40ft) under water - the survivors were trapped inside the boat cabins,” he told the BBC on Wednesday. It was a “complicated mission” as they had to “find our way into the darkness”.

One of the people Mr al-Faramaway rescued was his nephew, who got locked in one of the cabins while he was trying to save the passengers on board.

Seven people remain missing with the search efforts still underway. Two Britons who were on the boat are still unaccounted for, and it is not clear whether they are among the dead - who have not been identified - or are still missing.


The Foreign Office told The Independent that it is supporting “a number of British nationals and their families”.

 

[Still Kicking]

With the NMEA Cables and standards, it's pretty easy to get anything to play on the touch screen infront of the wheel. Then the dedicated radar screen is just installed {or not at all} as a backup screen a distance away. Alot of big boats now have duplicated screens for passengers convenience so they don't have look over the captain's shoulders. In JUP/WPB here, alot of divers have the Navionics screen on their cellphone that shows the live reef map as the boat pulls up to it so they can understand which way they should "lean to" as they drift down the reef line. Bottom screens & NMEA technology are really cool to have and play with for divers.

It's a Furuno RDP 139 - a decent consumer-grade radar from circa 2002. (I recognize it because I have one on a boat I just bought, and it really needs to be updated).

If it works, it works but it's far from state of the art or commercial grade radar.

 

[Jai Bar]

This was basically a brand new boat. What on earth is going on in the Red Sea? Do they all have a terrible safety record?

With 17 still missing 12h after the sinking I don’t think we can expect any kind of even semi-happy ending.

I don't remember how many Egyptian/Red Sea LOB incidents have occured in the last ten years, but way too many to be coincidence. Safety standards are low- very low. You won't see rooms with smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, for example. I started checking some stuff (not a boating expert) after the MV conception fire in 2019. I did about a dozen safaries in Egypt since then, and there is always the initial briefing where they focus a lot on not throwing paper in the toilets, less on fire emergency. So I began asking where the escape hatch is, always frowned upon by both guests and crew for "wasting time with stupid questions." Then I insisted on checking it, in ALL the boats the exit was blocked by anchor ropes, two boats the door was hidden behind a mirror in the bow right guest room, another the hidden door led to crew sleeping quarters, a mattress blocking the hatch In case of engine fire the stairs are a no go, then all guest's rooms are a death trap.

So I started paying extra to be on the upper deck rooms.

There are many incidents not even reported, the ones where no one dies. Sea Queen II sank immediately after season on the way to dry dock all hands but one lost. It could have happened as well in the last day of diving. I was on a liveaboard we just left the marina o ln the first day to Tiran, when we heard an explosion and burnt smell. I told wife to take our two teenager kids to upper deck until assessment of whats going on. No other guests thought they should do something. Compressor exploded, mechanic went out staggering to the dive deck with several cuts and a large laceration to the bone in his left hand. I am a medic, went for the emergency med kit to find some advils, plasters, a few gauze pads and an elastic peg. Nothing to really dress wounds. Had to improvise pressure with towels. We evacuated the mechanic at Umbarak's jetty, they brought and piled some 30m cylinders in the main deck passages (because the compressor exploded, yah?) and off the boat continued. What would you do in such a case? Do you think such incidents enter the statistics? Reported?

Fire hazards, emergency passages blocked, lack of medical equipment, lack of attention, no night guard, no smoke or fire detectors, poor electrical maintenance, incompetent crew (there is more to the cook and dive masters), lack of safety information on briefings, poor maintenance...one wonders if it is not a miracle that there aren't more accidents. There are, but most are not reported if not catastrophic..

 

[chillyinCanada]

I don't remember how many Egyptian/Red Sea LOB incidents have occured in the last ten years, but way too many to be coincidence. Safety standards are low- very low. You won't see rooms with smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, for example. I started checking some stuff (not a boating expert) after the MV conception fire in 2019. I did about a dozen safaries in Egypt since then, and there is always the initial briefing where they focus a lot on not throwing paper in the toilets, less on fire emergency. So I began asking where the escape hatch is, always frowned upon by both guests and crew for "wasting time with stupid questions." Then I insisted on checking it, in ALL the boats the exit was blocked by anchor ropes, two boats the door was hidden behind a mirror in the bow right guest room, another the hidden door led to crew sleeping quarters, a mattress blocking the hatch In case of engine fire the stairs are a no go, then all guest's rooms are a death trap.

So I started paying extra to be on the upper deck rooms.

There are many incidents not even reported, the ones where no one dies. Sea Queen II sank immediately after season on the way to dry dock all hands but one lost. It could have happened as well in the last day of diving. I was on a liveaboard we just left the marina o ln the first day to Tiran, when we heard an explosion and burnt smell. I told wife to take our two teenager kids to upper deck until assessment of whats going on. No other guests thought they should do something. Compressor exploded, mechanic went out staggering to the dive deck with several cuts and a large laceration to the bone in his left hand. I am a medic, went for the emergency med kit to find some advils, plasters, a few gauze pads and an elastic peg. Nothing to really dress wounds. Had to improvise pressure with towels. We evacuated the mechanic at Umbarak's jetty, they brought and piled some 30m cylinders in the main deck passages (because the compressor exploded, yah?) and off the boat continued. What would you do in such a case? Do you think such incidents enter the statistics? Reported?

Fire hazards, emergency passages blocked, lack of medical equipment, lack of attention, no night guard, no smoke or fire detectors, poor electrical maintenance, incompetent crew (there is more to the cook and dive masters), lack of safety information on briefings, poor maintenance...one wonders if it is not a miracle that there aren't more accidents. There are, but most are not reported if not catastrophic..

If all divers did this every trip, the situation would likely improve.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

If all divers did this every trip, the situation would likely improve.

I suppose the question is that if you're on the boat, start kicking the tires so to speak and feel unsafe, what then? I don't really see an operator that allows their vessels to run in unsafe condition cheerfully agreeing to a refund if you decide to walk off at the dock (assuming they do the brief before casting off).

Personally, I'd rather not put myself into that situation; a liveaboard trip (or generally any overseas dive trip) is a significant investment for me and I'm inclined to check things before I book so as not to flush money and time down the drain. Unless I get a personal recommendation for a good operator in the Red Sea that isn't cutting corners, it's off my list for the foreseeable future. The only way things are going to change is if there's a clear financial incentive (for the operators and the government) to run safely.

 

[Ukmc]

I suppose the question is that if you're on the boat, start kicking the tires so to speak and feel unsafe, what then? I don't really see an operator that allows their vessels to run in unsafe condition cheerfully agreeing to a refund if you decide to walk off at the dock (assuming they do the brief before casting off).

Personally, I'd rather not put myself into that situation; a liveaboard trip (or generally any overseas dive trip) is a significant investment for me and I'm inclined to check things before I book so as not to flush money and time down the drain. Unless I get a personal recommendation for a good operator in the Red Sea that isn't cutting corners, it's off my list for the foreseeable future. The only way things are going to change is if there's a clear financial incentive (for the operators and the government) to run safely.

Good points. Do we have a thread where there is a list of dive operators in the Red Sea who put safety first and not operating these “leaning tower of Pisa” toppling boats? It would be nice to have /develop criteria for LOB Safety - seaworthy boat, life rafts, fire safety, safety briefings, willing to change itinerary for weather changes, has appropriate radio and gps equipment and etc…
The hardest item for ranking would be willing to refund money/credit if it is not safe to go out or the trip has to be cut short.- personal experience vs policy in place.
I only had an LOB experience once. I was impressed with their safety briefings. There smoke detector was in every room. I don’t remember about them having CO detector but I brought my own. There was a separate place where the phones and batteries to be charged if charged unattended. They did change itinerary completely based on weather. That was my only LOB experience. However, I know there are a lot folks here on the board who are seasoned dive travelers with many LOB excursions, who can come up with safety criteria and put some dive operators/boats through those filters. I think it would be helpful for many. For example, I do not have any friends who have had a personal experience traveling to Red Sea, so no one for me to make a personal recommendation.

 

[John Bantin]

A modern boat means modern materials. Plywood and fiberglass.

Egyptian pinewood.

 

[Umuntu]

Good points. Do we have a thread where there is a list of dive operators in the Red Sea who put safety first and not operating these “leaning tower of Pisa” toppling boats? It would be nice to have /develop criteria for LOB Safety - seaworthy boat, life rafts, fire safety, safety briefings, willing to change itinerary for weather changes, has appropriate radio and gps equipment and etc…
The hardest item for ranking would be willing to refund money/credit if it is not safe to go out or the trip has to be cut short.- personal experience vs policy in place.
I only had an LOB experience once. I was impressed with their safety briefings. There smoke detector was in every room. I don’t remember about them having CO detector but I brought my own. There was a separate place where the phones and batteries to be charged if charged unattended. They did change itinerary completely based on weather. That was my only LOB experience. However, I know there are a lot folks here on the board who are seasoned dive travelers with many LOB excursions, who can come up with safety criteria and put some dive operators/boats through those filters. I think it would be helpful for many. For example, I do not have any friends who have had a personal experience traveling to Red Sea, so no one for me to make a personal recommendation.

Something similar to the Cozumel dive shop spreadsheet

 

[Ukmc]

Something similar to the Cozumel dive shop spreadsheet

Yes! But also come up with a criteria that one could judge the safety of the boat/operator when choosing a liveaboard or evaluating them when posting a trip report / sharing experiences afterwards !

 

[scubadada]

I am disappointed, but not surprised, at the lack of reporting coming out of Egypt, nothing since Tuesday. I assume the 7 missing are still missing.

Evaluating the relative safety of liveaboards in Egypt is a daunting task. LiveAboard.com lists 77 boats in Egypt out of a total of 481 on their website. PADI Travel lists 49 boats in Egypt out of a total of 253 on their website. I'm sure there are boats not listed on either website.

There are some liveaboard operators who emphasize safety. I have used Colombia Dive Adventures (Ferox) and Nautilus Adventures (Explorer) twice each and can vouch for them. Obviously, these are not in Egypt.