Scuba symbol owned by anyone?

[PWCPD Diver]

Strange question: does anyone know if the dive symbol--either US or international--is owned by anyone (as in a trademarked/registered symbol)? The more direct question is if I want to use it in something commercial, do I have to pay someone for the ability to do so?

The Blue and White flag is the "Alpha" flag it is not copyrighted or trademarked.

 

[Sasquatch]

"This will probaly be my last post-- I have spent entirely too much time away from my writing and and must return to remain on schedule." Sam Miller

And so we bid farewell to Sam Miller and certainly look forward to the publication of his book.

Good luck!

Edit: PS How did this get routed to "Non-Diving Related Stuff"? How much more Diving Related could it get?

 

[CBulla]

"This will probaly be my last post-- I have spent entirely too much time away from my writing and and must return to remain on schedule." Sam Miller

And so we bid farewell to Sam Miller and certainly look forward to the publication of his book.

A shame. I read this thread and in no real way find myself taking that person serious. Even if he writes a book I wouldn't be able to take the contents as more than a regurgitation of already printed and available media. Plagiarismif you will.

Edit: PS How did this get routed to "Non-Diving Related Stuff"? How much more Diving Related could it get?

It was posted here by the thread originator, thats what the history says.

 

[mike_s]

Sam Miller.

Let me be the first to state that I don't know who created this flag other than what I read on the bathroom door. Other ScubaBoard members who are well respected on this thread have verified who this is.

However, it appears that you are writting a book about it and have "focused" one "one story" instead of being objective. A good researcher will consider all the facts.

To exlcude him beceause he did not step forward and "claim" it was his creation is poor judgement.

It's apparant that you have great knowledge of many things in scuba history, so I would think this would important to you to research properly. Maybe the others here are all wrong.... but if you don't research it, you'll never know.

As for me, I've already stated that I didn't know exactly who it was.... (but I was curious enough to ask and was open minded about it).


If your book isn't correct on the facts, I doubt it will become "bathroom reading material" either. (speaking of reading about the dive flag in the bathroom).

 

[beezwax]

I hope the guest editor has a guest editor for his book...a doctor of letters he is not. Were he not so passionately disinterested in following up on this thread he might have time to check his facts or at least his grammar/spelling/punctuation. I don't know Sam from Adam...he may be a scuba legend but here him aint comin off purdy good atall, eh?

 

[Ayisha]

For those of you who don't know, Dr Sam Miller is indeed a well known and respected person in diving history. He was recently honoured at the "Legends of Diving" event in Ohio, and people travelled from afar (like us) to see Dr Miller and Sam Lecocq. We came from Toronto with Alec Peirce, one of the presenters at the event. I found Dr Miller to be an engaging, likeable, thought-provoking, knowledgeable individual.

See below:

 

[shellig]

Darn I wrote a good entry and Internet Explorer crashed...

Seems the dispute is not going to easily be resolved.

I do not know where Mr. Dockery should be placed, that is for him the individual to decide. I for one have never met him in person or via correspondence; he was not present nor did he step forward when the acceptance of the dive flag was on trial in Long Beach, nor was he mentioned in the trial when the useage of the Dive flag was almost stolen from the diving public.

It is indeed sad...Ted did,

Curious as to whether this means that Ted was at the trial and testified that he did, in fact, invent the flag. I doubt this as Mr. Miller also says:

"letters and copies of Skin Diver Magazine (SDM) which were submitted as proof" and "all records and all recent dive historians credit Ted Nixon of Michigan as the father of the red and white dive flag"

-- no personal testimony or affadavits mentioned here.

Several things I found make me curious:
1) http://www.skin-diver.com/departments/timecapsules/NuggetsofYesteryear.asp?theID=633 says:

The Divers Down Flag has evolved into more than a mere safety device. It is now a diver's mark of distinction. But where did the idea begin? The September 1957 editorial mentions a diver from Michigan whose club newspaper included articles on "a divers flag that would...indicate the location of the underwater man...." Skin Diver asked for suggestions on the design of a national flag and created a raging debate. Divers were asked to choose between the Seven Flag, which had a vertical stripe down the middle, and Michigan's Divers Flag, which sported a diagonal stripe. The debate was finally settled in February 1958 and the Divers Flag has been a symbol of diving ever since.​

but I do not have a copy of the edition to look at to see which person wrote the editorial and whether it suggests the "Michigan Divers Flag" as a choice but does not in fact "invent" it...(Which begs the question...when is someone the inventor, father, creator, instigator, etc. Perhaps Mr. Dockery created the "Michigan Divers Flag" (which may also be what we now know as the "Diver Down" flag) which was suggested (hence fathered) by Mr. Nixon as the national flag in "Skin Diver"?

2) The flag being red (not orange...) is supported by:

http://www.navyslang.com/navyterms2.html "When loading ammunition or other dangerous materials, Navy ships display a red pennant called “baker”. Somehow, this signal of ‘Danger, do not approach,!” became an expression among male sailors that the wife or girlfriend was having a period." :blush:​

Again, this could have been how the "Michigan Divers Flag" was created...and then "developed" by Ted into the national dive flag we have today.

I do believe this merits a call or a letter to Mr. Dockery or his family before publishing a book purporting to be documenting historical fact ...or at least mention that there is some dispute about the origin and/or discrepancy in the definition of "father" vs. inventor...semantics may be important here.

More than a few psi...

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

For those of you who don't know, Dr Sam Miller is indeed a well known and respected person in diving history. He was recently honoured at the "Legends of Diving" event in Ohio, and people travelled from afar (like us) to see Dr Miller and Sam Lecocq. We came from Toronto with Alec Peirce, one of the presenters at the event. I found Dr Miller to be an engaging, likeable, thought-provoking, knowledgeable individual.

Did you read his posts on this board concerning this topic? I'm curious if you thought they were engaging, likeable, and thought-provoking. Perhaps in real life, he comes off a lot differently, but IMO, he came off like a horses *** on this board.

He doesn't seem to want to engage in researching details that could prove, what his current thoughts on a subject, wrong.

Likeable is not what I see.

Thought-provoking? The addition of the information brought before him has not provoked any thoughts of retaining further information, just defensive text and self proclimation.

I just don't understand why a respectable dive 'legend' with his reputation won't put in a 15 minute phone call to Doc.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

If he does not investigate this further does it make his book fiction? One would think so. If I sell a car does that make me the inventor? That is basically what is being said. I have read the postings at his former dive shop and have no reason to doubt that he and his wife created it. With Sam Miller being so highly respected it is disappointing that he is not interested in finding out all the facts first.

 

[Ed Palma]

Just curious, has his book been published?